Yesterday I installed a small powered sub. At first the ANC module was left connected and wow, what crazy feedback, esp around 2k rpm. Anyway I disconnected the module and that fixed it however, if I drive with the music off, it is in fact quite noticable that the ANC did actually do something, more road noise for sure. What I'm wondering is could a wire going to the module be setup with a switch so I could enable or disable on demand? Even if I had to power cycle the car that would be fine, way easier than pulling the dash apart to plug back in.
Could a switch be added to selectively disable ANC?
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Yesterday I installed a small powered sub. At first the ANC module was left connected and wow, what crazy feedback, esp around 2k rpm. Anyway I disconnected the module and that fixed it however, if I drive with the music off, it is in fact quite noticable that the ANC did actually do something, more road noise for sure. What I'm wondering is could a wire going to the module be setup with a switch so I could enable or disable on demand? Even if I had to power cycle the car that would be fine, way easier than pulling the dash apart to plug back in.
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+1...
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I've learned a bit about the ANC, but no one has explained exactly what it does, when and why. It would be great to understand it at that level.
With my limited understanding, wouldn't the best option be to disable the ANC when music is playing and re-enable it when it's not. If so, a triggered relay circuit might be a good option over having to flip a switch periodically. Or am I totally off-base?
With my limited understanding, wouldn't the best option be to disable the ANC when music is playing and re-enable it when it's not. If so, a triggered relay circuit might be a good option over having to flip a switch periodically. Or am I totally off-base?
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From our friends in New Zealand
https://www.honda.co.nz/technology/driving/anc/
Haven't seen this on the NA Honda site.
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The two mics in the headliner are what looks like dime size plastic buttons with a little hole in the center?
Do you think it would be possible to temporally cover them just to see what it would be like with them disconnected?
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My uneducated guess would be that even though they are covered, the vibration induced into them MAY still allow some input to the ANC. If that makes sense.
The rumble may actually input through the microphone through induction of vibrations.
Kinda like the rattle of the license plate on a trunk lid with a HUUUUGE woofer in it!? :devil
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There is an unshielded green wire that runs from pin 21 on 24-pin connector A on the audio unit to pin 3 of the 20-pin connector on the ANC/ASC unit.
The wiring diagram describes this circuit as "ELS_DATE+" (whatever that stands for - I can't even begin to guess).
The connector diagram labels pin 3 on the ANC/ASC unit as "SWD+B" (switched battery voltage, most likely) with the description, "Inputs signal for active noise cancellation unit switching on/off".
This appears to be a +12V signal from the audio unit to the ANC/ASC unit to turn it on. The only instance I can think of where the audio unit would turn off ANC/ASC is when the audio unit is in diagnostic mode and "disable ANC" is selected which results in a hum for period of time then ANC is disabled until the vehicle is restarted. I'm not sure how the audio unit turns off ANC in diagnostic mode. It could be by turning off the +12V signal or the audio unit could be talking to the ANC unit over the K-LINE or F-CAN data bus since both the audio unit and the ANC/ASC module are connected to those busses.
I wonder what would happen if a switch or relay was added to the green wire connected to pin 3 on the ANC/ASC unit.
The ANC/ASC unit receives constant battery voltage on an unshielded red wire connected to pin 11 from under-hood fuse 24 which also powers the audio unit.
The ANC/ASC unit receives ignition battery voltage on an unshielded brown wire connected to pin 12 from under-dash fuse 36 which also powers the gauge control module ("instrument cluster").
The wiring diagram describes this circuit as "ELS_DATE+" (whatever that stands for - I can't even begin to guess).
The connector diagram labels pin 3 on the ANC/ASC unit as "SWD+B" (switched battery voltage, most likely) with the description, "Inputs signal for active noise cancellation unit switching on/off".
This appears to be a +12V signal from the audio unit to the ANC/ASC unit to turn it on. The only instance I can think of where the audio unit would turn off ANC/ASC is when the audio unit is in diagnostic mode and "disable ANC" is selected which results in a hum for period of time then ANC is disabled until the vehicle is restarted. I'm not sure how the audio unit turns off ANC in diagnostic mode. It could be by turning off the +12V signal or the audio unit could be talking to the ANC unit over the K-LINE or F-CAN data bus since both the audio unit and the ANC/ASC module are connected to those busses.
I wonder what would happen if a switch or relay was added to the green wire connected to pin 3 on the ANC/ASC unit.
The ANC/ASC unit receives constant battery voltage on an unshielded red wire connected to pin 11 from under-hood fuse 24 which also powers the audio unit.
The ANC/ASC unit receives ignition battery voltage on an unshielded brown wire connected to pin 12 from under-dash fuse 36 which also powers the gauge control module ("instrument cluster").
My educated guess is no.
The ANC works whether the audio is on or off. It uses the subwoofer to cancel low frequency noise inside the cabin. The problem isn't that the ANC is connected/disconnected, it's that you're using an aftermarket subwoofer.
My guess (and it's just a guess) is that the feedback you're hearing is the ANC doing it's job but, instead of doing it through the stock sub, it's now doing it through an aftermarket sub which is far more capable. Think of it in terms of numbers. The ANC system works by monitoring noise in the cabin. Say it detects noise (+1). In response, it plays the opposite frequency (-1). The result is zero [(+1)+(-1)=0]. If you modify the ANC system by adding a sub with a higher output level, you throw off the system. ANC still tries to do the same thing (cancel a +1 with a -1, +2 with -2, etc...) but it's not calibrated to work with a more powerful aftermarket sub. So when it detects +1 worth of noise, it responds with what it thinks is -1 (the exact opposite). The problem is that the aftermarket sub is (for example) 3 times more capable, so instead of the -1 the ANC module thinks it's outputting, it's actually putting out -3. So you end up with [(+1) + (-3) = -2]. This surplus output is heard as "crazy feedback" from your aftermarket sub.
To do what you want, you'd have to find a way to route signal to the aftermarket sub while ANC is disconnected and the radio is on, and to the factory sub when ANC is connected and the radio is off. Shouldn't be too difficult. You'd have to have both the factory and aftermarket sub connected. You would then have to interrupt the ANC and factory sub (after the factory amp so you don't lose power to the rest of the speakers) when the radio is playing, then restore them and interrupt the aftermarket sub when the radio is off.
Good thoughts for sure, but in my case, I have the 8 speaker system, no sub present so I never actually disconnected anything (except for the ANC, of course) I just added the aftermarket sub. Not having the ANC plugged in is not a huge deal, its been a couple of months now and the sound I hear is now the new normal. it would still be nice to use it in radio off mode though.
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How much of a difference did ANC make in the sport? Does it really work?
I have the Touring and added a big sub and amp, and to my surprise, I have not noticed any negative effect from leaving the ANC connected, at least I don't think what I'm experiencing is related to the ANC. Since my issue is there with the engine off sitting in my driveway.
My issue is that the sob is crazy hot because I have not been able to turn down the gain on the sub amp yet because it is a Zapco DC series which means I need to load XP or Win 7 on my laptop to be able to "talk" to it to reduce the gain and set to x-over frequency. Fortunately the speaker vs. line level input is selected via a slide switch.
I already have the sub level turned all the way down in the OEM head unit, but even then, on any track with anything above moderate bass, and the volume much past 15, I get crazy loud bass that rattles the rear deck. The sub itself is not rattling, but the low end SPL is just too intense.
I suppose I could try disconnecting the ANC just to see if it plays a factor at all.
My issue is that the sob is crazy hot because I have not been able to turn down the gain on the sub amp yet because it is a Zapco DC series which means I need to load XP or Win 7 on my laptop to be able to "talk" to it to reduce the gain and set to x-over frequency. Fortunately the speaker vs. line level input is selected via a slide switch.
I already have the sub level turned all the way down in the OEM head unit, but even then, on any track with anything above moderate bass, and the volume much past 15, I get crazy loud bass that rattles the rear deck. The sub itself is not rattling, but the low end SPL is just too intense.
I suppose I could try disconnecting the ANC just to see if it plays a factor at all.
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I think it is a best practice to disconnect the ANC. You could use an active LOC like the LC2i or JL LoC-22 to regulate the input signal to your amp.
I have a 2018 Accord Touring and was disappointed by the quality of audio I was hearing. I just couldn’t quite find an EQ that suited my ears.
Honda uses ANC (active noise cancellation), an out of phase cabin sound, to reduce engine noise. Works very well for low frequency cabin noise, but it also affects music in lower frequency ranges. (And, to a lesser extent, localization of music at other frequencies.)
Out of phase signals in music can drive you buggy. Certainly you have noticed when that one speaker (or microphone) is out of phase with another, it just doesn’t sound quite right. When I went to the internet, I saw that some versions of Honda provided access to a developer mode that allowed access to set a DSP (digital sound processor) to “Flat”. (In other words, turn off the ANC.)
Unfortunately, I didn’t know how to do this on my model.
Thanks to a person on YouTube, I learned how to get into developer mode on the 2018 Touring, and through my own muddling, found what, I believe is, the way to turn off the ANC.
Press and Hold: POWER/VOLUME KNOB + HOME + SOURCE
Select: Detail Information and Setting screen
Press and Hold: HOME + Audio Check
Select: Audio Setting
Set: PS to OFF
Exit Developer mode (Via Returns)
When you EVALUATE the results, don’t use DTS Neural Surround or other “enhancements". Save them for later if you like, but they do affect perception and localization.
(I don’t know what the acronym “PS” means, but I would bet that it means Psychoacoustic.)
Honda uses ANC (active noise cancellation), an out of phase cabin sound, to reduce engine noise. Works very well for low frequency cabin noise, but it also affects music in lower frequency ranges. (And, to a lesser extent, localization of music at other frequencies.)
Out of phase signals in music can drive you buggy. Certainly you have noticed when that one speaker (or microphone) is out of phase with another, it just doesn’t sound quite right. When I went to the internet, I saw that some versions of Honda provided access to a developer mode that allowed access to set a DSP (digital sound processor) to “Flat”. (In other words, turn off the ANC.)
Unfortunately, I didn’t know how to do this on my model.
Thanks to a person on YouTube, I learned how to get into developer mode on the 2018 Touring, and through my own muddling, found what, I believe is, the way to turn off the ANC.
Press and Hold: POWER/VOLUME KNOB + HOME + SOURCE
Select: Detail Information and Setting screen
Press and Hold: HOME + Audio Check
Select: Audio Setting
Set: PS to OFF
Exit Developer mode (Via Returns)
When you EVALUATE the results, don’t use DTS Neural Surround or other “enhancements". Save them for later if you like, but they do affect perception and localization.
(I don’t know what the acronym “PS” means, but I would bet that it means Psychoacoustic.)
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If you turn ANC off this way, does it not come back on each time the vehicle is restarted? It does in the Ridgeline - most settings aren't persistent.
Also, are you sure the "PS" (Personalized Settings?) setting isn't turning off the ability to store audio settings such as presets by driver (remote 1 and remote 2) in the Touring rather than ANC?
Also, are you sure the "PS" (Personalized Settings?) setting isn't turning off the ability to store audio settings such as presets by driver (remote 1 and remote 2) in the Touring rather than ANC?
Just tried Stew72's method and can confirm that low end definitely sounds better. Haven't tested whether restarting the car resets this or not yet.
Update: The setting doesn't revert if you restart your car.
There still seems to be a bit of drop out, but it doesn't seem near as bad. Placebo maybe? Hopefully others will try this and give their feedback. Thanks again to Stew72 for such a great find.
Update: The setting doesn't revert if you restart your car.
There still seems to be a bit of drop out, but it doesn't seem near as bad. Placebo maybe? Hopefully others will try this and give their feedback. Thanks again to Stew72 for such a great find.
Answer 1: No, the setting sticks until you change it back.
(Of course if the battery is removed, everything must be reset.)
Answer 2: I am the only driver so I have never explored whether the audio is capable of being unique
to driver 1 or driver 2. If audio settings can be stored for each, I will check to see if this is
a "personalized settings" on/off switch.
Update: Audio settings cannot be personalized for driver 1/driver 2 regardless of the position of the PS on/off switch.
On an unrelated matter I am going to Honda for the backup camera recall. I will ask about the developer mode PS on/off switch. (Hopefully their tech will know.)
I do sense better bass transient response and sound localization in the PS = Off position.
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Do you notice any change in the overall noise level when driving?
I have had the car for less than one week, and have driven it less than 30 miles. I'm also not very acquainted with what can and cannot be saved as driver 1 and driver 2 settings (besides seats).
I hope that you Accord Touring drivers with many miles under your belt can evaluate these well-founded questions.
I do have many "miles" of (non automotive) audio experience though.
:wink
I hope that you Accord Touring drivers with many miles under your belt can evaluate these well-founded questions.
I do have many "miles" of (non automotive) audio experience though.
:wink
So I gave this a try. My car is a sport 2.0, so I have the 8 speaker NO SUB system. I had added a powered sub some time ago and found it necessary to unplug the ANC module due to the feedback. Well today I tore the dash apart to plug the module back in because frankly, if not listening to music i'd like the noise reduction that the ANC system provides, and not having to tear apart things to plug an unplug the module would be a huge bonus. Anyhow, I followed the instructions and unfortunately, the position of that PS Setting switch makes no difference, the feedback through the sub is back. So I have to wonder if I'm doing something wrong or if perhaps this only works on "premium audio" systems with the factory sub.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
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