[AccordDIYer]

Hi folks, Doing my first T-belt job on my 09 Accord V6 AT. I spun the crank bolt on with it's washer and used a ratchet to set timing a-la South Main auto channel (though he never showed himself removing it again) My issue is that I need to get the crank bolt back off because I didn't install it with the pulley and the metal guide, and I can't retroactively fit them over the bolt. I plan to install and torque the bolt at the end.

Problem is I don't have an impact and if I try to remove the bolt w/ a ratchet, it just spins it backwards and throws off the timing.

What is the move for me? My thought was maybe I could cut the belt (with the timing already set) and then remove the bolt w/ a breaker bar?

 

[drowned12]

I used an impact to get it back off. You should not attempt to get it off with the belt cut, because the worst thing that can happen is the crankshaft spins and the camshafts don't (or vice versa) and now your engine timing is off.

I would tap your ratchet handle with a hammer to simulate using an impact. The shock should break the bolt free without moving any of the pulleys. Alternatively....put some oil on the threads and washer of the bolt to decrease the friction (you're supposed to do this anyways before torquing the bolt back on, according to the service manual), and or remove the spark plugs to decrease the amount of force needed to turn the crank.

It's too late now, but you're also not supposed to spin the crank counterclockwise. I don't know how bad it really is but something something bearings happier spinning the correct directions.

 

[AccordDIYer]

Hmm. Yeah I realized the counterclockwise on the crank was dumb, don't think I went more than a tooth or 2..
So I guess I should try to grab an impact? I'd really like to just get this right. Harbor freights got one for like 40 bucks that is supposedly 240ft pounds or so.... Do you think that'd work? I did crank the engine a bunch because I was paranoid of timing marks so it could be pretty tight.. don't know

** Now that I think I also have a hand impact tool use for brake screws, maybe that could work?

Again I just wanna play it safe here.. If I gotta spend 40-100 on a impact so be it.

 

[drowned12]

I would first try a wrench/ratchet/breaker bar + hammer tap on the handle. My impact only took about 1-2 hammers before the bolt spun off. The crank and camshafts should have more inertia than the bolt when it's knocked on with a hammer. With the belt still connected you'll be able to see immediately if you moved any of the timing going backwards.

The impact for brake screws would probably be a bad idea.

Just so we're clear...you already cracked the bolt loose to get the pulley off? If so you definitely don't need high-torque anymore and just about any impact should do.

 

[t-rd]

If you don't have an impact, you need the Honda crank pulley holder tool with another ratchet and lodge it against a suspension control arm to hold the crankshaft in-place, while you take a 1/2" ratchet with a 19mm to crack the crank bolt back off. But in my opinion, you need an impact for the timing belt job or it's a pain. You don't ever want to turn the crank and end up hitting the valves up top with the pistons. You can turn the crank counterclockwise but don't keep doing it. Turn it back clockwise and line up the mark on the crank gear, if the 2 cams haven't moved.

The only 1/2" electric impact you should get is the Milwaukee 2767. If you are in a real jam, get the 1/2" impact from harbor freight.

 

[CharlieHustle]

The easiest way to remove the bolt is using an impact gun.

I just cant imagine the bolt being on so tight that a regular ratchet wont break the bolt free. .. Especially if all you did was installl it to turn your crank pullwey.

 

[dkwilfert]

If you don't have an impact, you need the Honda crank pulley holder tool with another ratchet and lodge it against a suspension control arm to hold the crankshaft in-place, while you take a 1/2" ratchet with a 19mm to crack the crank bolt back off. But in my opinion, you need an impact for the timing belt job or it's a pain. You don't ever want to turn the crank and end up hitting the valves up top with the pistons. You can turn the crank counterclockwise but don't keep doing it. Turn it back clockwise and line up the mark on the crank gear, if the 2 cams haven't moved.

The only 1/2" electric impact you should get is the Milwaukee 2767. If you are in a real jam, get the 1/2" impact from harbor freight.

Yes, a GOOD impact is need, plus you will likely need a special socket with more mass; makes even a weaker impact wrench work. This is the socket I am talking about; it is what most professional shops use.

Amazon.com: Mofeez 77080 19mm Harmonic Balancer Socket for Honda: Gateway

Buy Mofeez 77080 19mm Harmonic Balancer Socket for Honda: Harmonic Balancers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[greg1c]

If you read carefully the issue is he did not install the woodruff key and tightened the crankshaft bolt. The crankshaft pulley and the timing belt pulley are not mechanically connected to the crankshaft. While you can hold the crankshaft pulley, there is nothing to stop the crankshaft from turning with the bolt. The danger here is turning the crankshaft and the Pistons hitting and bending the valves.

A high tourqe impact is your best bet to break the bolt loose. You might try heating the crankshaft bolt up with a propane torch first, before breaking it loose.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[t-rd]

Yes, a GOOD impact is need, plus you will likely need a special socket with more mass; makes even a weaker impact wrench work. This is the socket I am talking about; it is what most professional shops use.

Amazon.com: Mofeez 77080 19mm Harmonic Balancer Socket for Honda: Gateway

Buy Mofeez 77080 19mm Harmonic Balancer Socket for Honda: Harmonic Balancers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

That's a copy of the original Lisle harmonic balancer socket which I own and use. There is no need for that, to crack the bolt back loose if he just tightened it back on to line up the timing marks. Doesn't matter if the crank gear and the woodroff isn't on that, that's just for holding the belt. He just needs the crank bolt back off.

Get an impact.

 

[AccordDIYer]

Hey y'all thanks for all the help!
Good news!
I was actually able to spin the nut off with a 1/4 Milwaukee M12 driver.. So it definitely wasn't on there too tight. I did throw the timing off a hair cause I had it in forward at first.
Originally took the crank bolt off w/ a 3/4 breaker bar and a 4 ft pipe, lots of PB blaster
Hand impact driver -> fail, hammer on the ratchet didn't work either.
Don't need a trip to HF and 40 bucks

 

[t-rd]

That's good.

Skip the 3/4" breaker bar with a 4 ft. pipe next time. Nobody does that anymore, and is rather dangerous, ever since high torque electric impact became available.

 

[drowned12]

That's good.

Skip the 3/4" breaker bar with a 4 ft. pipe next time. Nobody does that anymore, and is rather dangerous, ever since high torque electric impact became available.

Eh, I'd say probably a lot of people do the breaker bar method because spending $150+ on an impact capable of removing the bolt, and then basically never needing that much torque again doesn't make sense.

I tried removing mine with the M18 Fuel Mid-Torque 1/2 Impact + high capacity battery + the special socket, didn't work (600 ft-lbs is the rating on that gun). I had to go up to the High Torque 1300 ft-lb variant.

Every other job I've ever had to do with the suspension or whatever I can get done with my M18 3/8 or my newer stubby M12 3/8 impact (~250 ft-lbs).

 

[t-rd]

I use the 1/2" milwaukee 2767 on heavy duty bolts like brake caliper bolts and it makes it a breeze, since I work on cars other than Accords. And I also had to use it to remove the 2 large bolts going from the oil pan into the transmission just last month. A lot of times, it's not the torque rating of the gun, but the size of the anvil + extension types you are using. 600 ft-lb on the 3/8" drive Milwaukee would yield less torque in a given amount of time compared to a mid range 600 ft-lb 1/2" drive because you are losing the torque via narrower extensions with more twists and vibrations. If you are using long and narrow extensions to get to hard to reach places, then you need higher torque since you are loosing torque via extension and vibrations. 1/2" guns + extensions yield less twisting and torque loss.

 

[AccordDIYer]

Yeah thing is I really just do work on my car which is pretty far and between. I basically need it to get one bolt off once every 10 years.. A cordless ratchet would be the most helpful. Was lookin at the HF high torque corded Bauer model w/ 1050 ft pounds for $90. Thing is a bear and I'd probably prefer just using a long ratchet. I'd rather save for something nice like a Milwaukee down the line if I wanted; however that's probably 300-400+ for a full set up. A 4 ft pipe and 3/4 breaker bar cost about $40, and honestly was solid as a rock. Was most worried about snapping my 3/4 -> 1/2 step down.

 

[drowned12]

Yeah thing is I really just do work on my car which is pretty far and between. I basically need it to get one bolt off once every 10 years.. A cordless ratchet would be the most helpful. Was lookin at the HF high torque corded Bauer model w/ 1050 ft pounds for $90. Thing is a bear and I'd probably prefer just using a long ratchet. I'd rather save for something nice like a Milwaukee down the line if I wanted; however that's probably 300-400+ for a full set up. A 4 ft pipe and 3/4 breaker bar cost about $40, and honestly was solid as a rock. Was most worried about snapping my 3/4 -> 1/2 step down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Milwaukee-...-FUEL-Stubby-3-8-Impact-Wrench-Kit-w-4-0-and-2-0-Batteries-2554-22/163710326493

Ebay is really good for getting discounts on Milwaukee stuff brand new. I'm not exactly sure why but it just is. Even for things like rotating tires it's so much nicer to be able to zip the lugnuts on and off. (Torque stick for tightening with the impact).

The cordless ratchets are kinda "meh". I have the M12 3/8 one and it's kinda too bulky to get in the engine bay and the torque isn't really there. They make a M18 3/8 right angle impact but I figure the bigger 18V battery will probably get in the way a lot.

 

[t-rd]

Yeah thing is I really just do work on my car which is pretty far and between. I basically need it to get one bolt off once every 10 years.. A cordless ratchet would be the most helpful. Was lookin at the HF high torque corded Bauer model w/ 1050 ft pounds for $90. Thing is a bear and I'd probably prefer just using a long ratchet. I'd rather save for something nice like a Milwaukee down the line if I wanted; however that's probably 300-400+ for a full set up. A 4 ft pipe and 3/4 breaker bar cost about $40, and honestly was solid as a rock. Was most worried about snapping my 3/4 -> 1/2 step down.

That's what I said years ago, then I realized I can rotate all 4 tires in 15 minutes with a 1/2" electric impact, instead of loosening lug nuts with car on the ground with a breaker bar, jack it up, rotate tires, then tighten again using breaker bar, then torque down using a torque wrench. You'll be amazed at the amount of time you save using a cordless electric impact.

 

[Bkord123]

That's what I said years ago, then I realized I can rotate all 4 tires in 15 minutes with a 1/2" electric impact, instead of loosening lug nuts with car on the ground with a breaker bar, jack it up, rotate tires, then tighten again using breaker bar, then torque down using a torque wrench. You'll be amazed at the amount of time you save using a cordless electric impact.

What model impact do you use?

 

[t-rd]

The Milwaukee 2767-20. I already have a a battery so I purchased the bare tool for $250. It's well worth it. It might be expensive but it saves so much time when working on cars. I also have the Milwaukee 3/8" stubby rated for 250 ft-lb of torque, which gets me into tight places easily with its very short neck.

 

[Bkord123]

The Milwaukee 2767-20. I already have a a battery so I purchased the bare tool for $250. It's well worth it. It might be expensive but it saves so much time when working on cars. I also have the Milwaukee 3/8" stubby rated for 250 ft-lb of torque, which gets me into tight places easily with its very short neck.

Thanks. I have a corded Milwaukee Impact that I like, but man would I enjoy a cordless model.

 

[TeacherMan]

That's good.

Skip the 3/4" breaker bar with a 4 ft. pipe next time. Nobody does that anymore, and is rather dangerous, ever since high torque electric impact became available.

That's a bit of exaggeration. Although electric and pneumatic impact wrenches can save time, old school methods still work just fine, and there are plenty of us who quietly go about our business with them. I recently did timing belts on my wife's Acura RDX and my daughter's 2010 Coupe in my humble garage without an impact. Would I like to have a Milwaukee 2767? Of course. Just don't have $350 to spare. Guess I'm "nobody."

As to the OP's problem, I understand his trepidation after setting the timing, but a single whack on the 3/4 breaker bar with a BAH is enough to back off the crank bolt without any counter rotation. By the way, since he hadn't reinstalled the crank pulley yet, there would be no need for a crank pulley holder.