[9thGenEXL]

Is spongy brakes just the norm for hondas? I bled my brakes on my 2013 accord but the pedal still feels pretty soft and goes basically to the floor, but the car stops just fine. I also noticed my friends 2014 CRV has a very similar pedal feel with only 40k miles on it..

 

[RickBlaine]

No.

You should probably take your car to someone who knows how to bleed brakes properly. You have air in your system.

 

[Justanotherguy]

When I bled mine, I did a complete total flush...I burned through the whole 32oz. My car, at 85k+, Did have a noticeably firmer pedal.. But my brake fluid came out looking like a...well almost coke colored, after only 3 years...
YMMV

 

[9thGenEXL]

No.

You should probably take your car to someone who knows how to bleed brakes properly. You have air in your system.

Lol. Thanks for assuming I don't know how to do something as simple as bleed brakes. As I said, my friends low mileage CRV has the same pedal feel and has original stock brakes. It shouldn't have any reason to have air in the lines. After I bled my brakes I noticed the pedal felt better with the car off, but after starting it up, the pedal feels pretty soft. It makes a hiss sound when depressing the pedal that makes me question if the booster could be bad and leaking and causing the soft pedal feel.

When I bled mine, I did a complete total flush...I burned through the whole 32oz. My car, at 85k+, Did have a noticeably firmer pedal.. But my brake fluid came out looking like a...well almost coke colored, after only 3 years...
YMMV

Mine wasn't quite coke colored but it came out a bit dark for sure

 

[BLCKFLSH]

Lol. Thanks for assuming I don't know how to do something as simple as bleed brakes. As I said, my friends low mileage CRV has the same pedal feel and has original stock brakes. It shouldn't have any reason to have air in the lines. After I bled my brakes I noticed the pedal felt better with the car off, but after starting it up, the pedal feels pretty soft. It makes a hiss sound when depressing the pedal that makes me question if the booster could be bad and leaking and causing the soft pedal feel.

When you give us no other symptoms, we will assume the obvious (didn't bleed the brakes correctly). You failed to mention all of this in your first post. If you hear a hiss, maybe you have a vacuum leak, which may or may not contribute to your issue. The brake pedal will always feel harder when the car is off, because you aren't get any help from the booster unless the engine is running. I don't know any other reason for spongy brake pedal, other than air in the lines. How did you bleed the brakes?

We don't care about your friend's CRV. All we know is, our brakes don't feel spongy. Did you bleed your friend's brakes too? Haha.

 

[9thGenEXL]

When you give us no other symptoms, we will assume the obvious (didn't bleed the brakes correctly). You failed to mention all of this in your first post. If you hear a hiss, maybe you have a vacuum leak, which may or may not contribute to your issue. The brake pedal will always feel harder when the car is off, because you aren't get any help from the booster unless the engine is running. I don't know any other reason for spongy brake pedal, other than air in the lines. How did you bleed the brakes?

We don't care about your friend's CRV. All we know is, our brakes don't feel spongy. Did you bleed your friend's brakes too? Haha.

Only reason I bring up the CRV is because it's another honda vehicle with identical pedal feel that is low mileage and shouldn't have any brake problems. The fluid isn't even dark and contaminated. And no I didn't bleed her brakes. Lol. I bled the brakes on my accord the normal recommended way, using the bleeder screws starting at the wheel closest to the master cylinder and working away from it, with a friend holding the pedal down of course. There were a couple bubbles that came out at first, but after bleeding each screw multiple times it was just steady fluid flow.

All we know is, our brakes don't feel spongy.

Honestly, this is all I wanted to know. I did some Googling and saw older Honda owners complaining of spongy brakes even after bleeding but didn't hear any feedback from people with 9th gens. I also saw a lot of posts saying Hondas in general had crappy pedal feel. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just a Honda thing like the firm shifts these cars have that is "normal". In the past a quick brake bleeding has always taken care of any spongy feeling, but it didn't help with this car. Like I forgot to mention in the original post, it's not the only symptom, so I'll look into the booster as well. Thanks for your input.

 

[t-rd]

If you bled the brakes and the brake pedal "basically goes to the floor" as you described, then there IS AIR IN THE SYSTEM. If you are hearing the hiss then look for a vacuum leak in the brake booster right behind the master cylinder. Check the vacuum hose going from the brake booster to the intake manifold.

How did you bleed the brakes? And what kind of brake fluid did you use?

 

[9thGenEXL]

If you bled the brakes and the brake pedal "basically goes to the floor" as you described, then there IS AIR IN THE SYSTEM. If you are hearing the hiss then look for a vacuum leak in the brake booster right behind the master cylinder. Check the vacuum hose going from the brake booster to the intake manifold.

How did you bleed the brakes? And what kind of brake fluid did you use?

I described the bleeding method above, and I used Dot 4 brake fluid. Also the pedal doesn't go completely to the floor, just way lower than I'm used to on most cars, and the car stops just fine. I did read online that these cars have a seal between the booster and the MC that can go bad so it might just be that seal, and not the entire booster.

The part of this whole situation that caused my confusion was just how identical my friend's 40k mile CRV's brakes are compared to this Accord. Same pedal travel and feel, same hiss while pressing the pedal. That's the reason I was questioning if this was some strange Honda thing. I just didn't expect 2 fairly new Hondas to have identical brake issues. I guess that's my fault for assuming...

 

[HondaBob]

I described the bleeding method above, and I used Dot 4 brake fluid. Also the pedal doesn't go completely to the floor, just way lower than I'm used to on most cars, and the car stops just fine. I did read online that these cars have a seal between the booster and the MC that can go bad so it might just be that seal, and not the entire booster.

Not that it's the cause of your problem but my owner's manual says to use only "Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3", and if that's not available you can use DOT 4 "as a temporary replacement". I hear what you're thinking, this genuine Honda fluid stuff is BS. Well, maybe, but brakes are one of the big things I wouldn't want to take chances with. Did you save a lot of money by not using Honda brake fluid?

 

[9thGenEXL]

Not that it's the cause of your problem but my owner's manual says to use only "Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3", and if that's not available you can use DOT 4 "as a temporary replacement". I hear what you're thinking, this genuine Honda fluid stuff is BS. Well, maybe, but brakes are one of the big things I wouldn't want to take chances with. Did you save a lot of money by not using Honda brake fluid?

I'll be honest i didnt even bother looking at the owner's manual. I used Lucas HD synthetic fluid that shows to be compatible with Dot 3 and 4. It's just a simple hydraulic system and I can't see how Honda's brand of fluid could be any better. If I get some down time I might flush all the current fluid out and go back with OEM just for the hell of it.

 

[visionguru]

I'll be honest i didnt even bother looking at the owner's manual. I used Lucas HD synthetic fluid that shows to be compatible with Dot 3 and 4. It's just a simple hydraulic system and I can't see how Honda's brand of fluid could be any better. If I get some down time I might flush all the current fluid out and go back with OEM just for the hell of it.

Exactly! There is nothing special about Honda brake system (fluid, pads, rotors....everything), and you were asking "...norm for Honda". It's not normal for any car!

Are you complaining about brake pedal height? or "soft" pedal feel? Two very different things.

The brake system is a hydraulic system powered by master cylinder AND assisted by brake booster. If there is air in the system, when you apply brakes, the air was compressed, you need to push a little further, that's why the soft feel. If the pedal feels firm, just too low. It can be easily adjusted.

How about doing the following simple tests?
(1) With engine stopped, press the pedal several times, how many times does it take to be very firm?
(2) keep pressing it hard and hold, does the pedal sink? if so, it's the master cylinder.
(3) Still holding the brake, start the engine, does the pedal sink slightly?
(4) Still holding the brake, turn off the engine, (still holding the brake for a minute) does the pedal height change?

 

[9thGenEXL]

Exactly! There is nothing special about Honda brake system (fluid, pads, rotors....everything), and you were asking "...norm for Honda". It's not normal for any car!

Are you complaining about brake pedal height? or "soft" pedal feel? Two very different things.

Ok, after reading some of these replies I realize I've done a (URINATION) poor job of explaining the symptoms so I'll try to give you specific details.

After bleeding and getting new fluid in the system, the pedal (with the car off) will get firm with 2-3 pumps and hold it's position. With the car running the pedal travel seems way too low and if I hold down on the pedal it sinks until it gets to a point it wont sink further, but it doesn't go all the way to the floor, and the car stops just fine. There is no amount of pumping that will make the pedal feel firm with the car running. It does give off a hiss when pressing the pedal. At this point i'm suspecting something is up with the booster or the seal between the booster and MC and maybe the vacuum leaking out is causing the pedal to sink with the car running. (Just to be clear, the symptoms were there before I bled the brakes)

 

[t-rd]

It's not the seal, unless you've done a tone of brake jobs pushing the pistons back into the calipers' bore without opening the bleeder screw. I've had the same seal in the MC in my 7th gen for the last 10 years. The one time I saw fluid go past the seal was when I didn't open the bleeder screw when pushing the front pistons back in, the rear does not cause a concern because the pistons are way smaller. Since then I always open the front caliper bleeder screws when I need to push the piston all the way back in, ONLY when installing brand new pads. The brake pedal will get firm in 3 pumps when the car is off because there is no vacuum boost and there is a check valve in the brake booster line that goes to the intake manifold. How about you take a video of the pedal travel and post it here. I get the sense that you just aren't used to Honda's brake pedal travel. If you want a very solid brake "feel", which does not improve braking distance, then you upgrade the rubber brake lines between the calipers and the hard lines to stainless steel ones. This only solidifies the braking feeling, it does nothing whatsoever to improve braking performance just so you know.

No, you do not need to use Honda OEM brake fluid, but you should stick with DOT3 because some DOT4 are silicone based. I use Valvoline DOT3 brake fluid, which is $7.99 for 32oz at any auto parts store, it works just fine. It has a higher boiling point than Honda OEM brake fluid.

I'm still suspecting you have air in the lines. It's common for the person pumping the brake pedal to make mistakes and lift the pedal before the bleeder screw is closed. And you should check the bleeder screws again and see if you have seepage.

 

[9thGenEXL]

It's not the seal, unless you've done a tone of brake jobs pushing the pistons back into the calipers' bore without opening the bleeder screw. I've had the same seal in the MC in my 7th gen for the last 10 years. The one time I saw fluid go past the seal was when I didn't open the bleeder screw when pushing the front pistons back in, the rear does not cause a concern because the pistons are way smaller. Since then I always open the front caliper bleeder screws when I need to push the piston all the way back in, ONLY when installing brand new pads. The brake pedal will get firm in 3 pumps when the car is off because there is no vacuum boost and there is a check valve in the brake booster line that goes to the intake manifold. How about you take a video of the pedal travel and post it here. I get the sense that you just aren't used to Honda's brake pedal travel. If you want a very solid brake "feel", which does not improve braking distance, then you upgrade the rubber brake lines between the calipers and the hard lines to stainless steel ones. This only solidifies the braking feeling, it does nothing whatsoever to improve braking performance just so you know.

No, you do not need to use Honda OEM brake fluid, but you should stick with DOT3 because some DOT4 are silicone based. I use Valvoline DOT3 brake fluid, which is $7.99 for 32oz at any auto parts store, it works just fine. It has a higher boiling point than Honda OEM brake fluid.

I'm still suspecting you have air in the lines. It's common for the person pumping the brake pedal to make mistakes and lift the pedal before the bleeder screw is closed. And you should check the bleeder screws again and see if you have seepage.

I went back and checked the bottle and it's actually Lucas HD Dot 3, not 4 like I mistakenly said in a reply above. And I'm starting to think you could be right about it just being me not being used to Honda brake feel/travel. Like I said above, my firend's CRV is identical in feel/travel. My Accord stops just fine, the brakes just felt weird to me and I'm super picky so I was trying to get the brakes to feel like what I'm used to. I think I'll try to bleed them again with a different assistant with more automotive knowledge just in case mistakes were made on the last bleed.

 

[UnknownJinX]

Not sure about 9th Gens, but my 8th Gen used to have spongy brakes as well. I got the fluid changed at the dealer, and it feels a lot better.

Personally, I think the brakes in all the cars I have driven are pretty similar, save for the crappy Corolla.

 

[AccordManiac]

Brakes on my 2013 v6 were anemic when i bought it(even after dealer performed brake flush replacement). So (because of time limitations) I replaced master cylinder (probably not necessary), replaced brake lines with steel braided, and replaced pads (front and rear) with thermoquites. Now I can stop on a dime. Also note that honda realized their error on the 2013-2015 brakes, because they increases the rotor size on the 2016 refresh for v6 or touring.

 

[Ang]

Only reason I bring up the CRV is because it's another honda vehicle with identical pedal feel that is low mileage and shouldn't have any brake problems. The fluid isn't even dark and contaminated. And no I didn't bleed her brakes. Lol. I bled the brakes on my accord the normal recommended way, using the bleeder screws starting at the wheel closest to the master cylinder and working away from it, with a friend holding the pedal down of course. There were a couple bubbles that came out at first, but after bleeding each screw multiple times it was just steady fluid flow.


Honestly, this is all I wanted to know. I did some Googling and saw older Honda owners complaining of spongy brakes even after bleeding but didn't hear any feedback from people with 9th gens. I also saw a lot of posts saying Hondas in general had crappy pedal feel. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just a Honda thing like the firm shifts these cars have that is "normal". In the past a quick brake bleeding has always taken care of any spongy feeling, but it didn't help with this car. Like I forgot to mention in the original post, it's not the only symptom, so I'll look into the booster as well. Thanks for your input.

my 2012 Accord Coupe has Soft Brakes too. All the Recent Cars Ive Driven, 2018 Ford Ecosport, 2021 Subaru Outback, 2021 Ram 1500 e.t.c if you press the brake at idle you instantly stop. with my accord i have to go all the way down and it stops quick of course, but not instant locking like the newer vehicles. im going to find a quiet road and stop hard from 40 to see how it feels, and if it feels like it stops well ill leave it. if not then ill be concerned. never owned or driven a honda until this one, so it may just be a honda thing?

 

[200366HFP]

my 2012 Accord Coupe has Soft Brakes too. All the Recent Cars Ive Driven, 2018 Ford Ecosport, 2021 Subaru Outback, 2021 Ram 1500 e.t.c if you press the brake at idle you instantly stop. with my accord i have to go all the way down and it stops quick of course, but not instant locking like the newer vehicles. im going to find a quiet road and stop hard from 40 to see how it feels, and if it feels like it stops well ill leave it. if not then ill be concerned. never owned or driven a honda until this one, so it may just be a honda thing?

Perhaps you need to replace the brake fluid in your 10 year old car.

 

[Justanotherguy]

Perhaps you need to replace the brake fluid in your 10 year old car.

as a matter of course, I have bled my 2014 brakes twice, about every 75,000

I think its just something you should do