[Cg006]

Ok.. so i have been pondering about this for sometime... but i have not been able to find a conclusive answer..... please hear me out(i am bored at work so got nothing better to do)...

All of this is my rationale inside my head.....

Ok..
So to my understanding with gasoline is that it is all pretty much the same amongst the gas stations and the only difference is the additives added. And the different grade levels of gas have to do with the amount of gasoline ratio to ethanol blends.

And..
It is said that the blends with ethanol (which now is very common) usually decrease your overall MPG by 10-15% and as far as what gasoline type for an accord many people state that using premium will not have any effect as far as better mpg on the car and it is a waste of money.

Now..
Since premium is considered a waste of money for an accord since you will see no real difference, what about if you use 89? anyone tried using 89 and see if it makes a difference? Since 87+the ethanol blend is kinda watered down as it is now and premium is a waste (according to most people), would using 89 be a good compromise since it should contain more pure gasoline per gallon as opposed to using 87, which is weaker+is usually blended with ethanol or using premium which is considered a waste?

I have been searching online to see anyone's experience using 89 gasoline but i have to see anything on this or a real discussion on this. All i ever see is Regular Vs. Premium debates but 89 is never mentioned.:dunno: I will greatly appreciate if anyone has anything to add to this let the discussions begin! :nuts:

 

[Kidnice]

Hello CG,

I have heard the same about Premium Gas, but I rather use that than any other grade. Premium is supposed to be the better grade and quality that adds life, or keeps life in the engine and at its best.
Been using premium gas for a long time, and never really compared it with other grades. I religously use BP to fuel my tank.
I dont know if theres anyone who can beg the differ.
Good luck in your research!

 

[bluestars80]

Hello CG,

I have heard the same about Premium Gas, but I rather use that than any other grade. Premium is supposed to be the better grade and quality that adds life, or keeps life in the engine and at its best.
Been using premium gas for a long time, and never really compared it with other grades. I religously use BP to fuel my tank.
I dont know if theres anyone who can beg the differ.
Good luck in your research!

It may have been a bigger deal when the engines were not as sophisticated as they are today.

Keep in mind a higher octane rating means that there's MORE resistance to detonate in the fuel than a lower rating.........:yes:

 

[eckseleven]

Keep in mind a higher octane rating means that there's MORE resistance to detonate in the fuel than a lower rating.........:yes:

Right, more resistant to detonation and a slower burn. It is not of higher quality and typically has the same amount of ethanol. Unless the manual says use premium, you are wasting money.

 

[Cg006]

I was under the impression using 89 would yield better results on MPG over using 87 without having to spend the extra money on premium.

But in any case, anyone out here used 89 on their accords? (7th gen if possible)

 

[turbodave]

I was under the impression using 89 would yield better results on MPG over using 87.

But in any case, anyone out here used 89 on their accords? (7th gen if possible)

Not really. Octane is a method by which detonation(knock) is controlled. It has nothing to do directly with power production or mileage. Indirectly in can affect power, etc. assuming the engine's state of tune is not right or they are burning lower octane than the engine was designed for.

Premium is not better than regular, it's different. Premium and regular run the same additives/cleaners in a given brand. Only difference being the octane (anti knock) rating.

An engine designed and properly engineered to burn 87 octane will garner no benefits from running a higher grade.
Make modifications to that same engine that would otherwise affects its compression ratio then all bets are off.

Some engines are designed and built in such a way as to require higher grades of gas, such as higher than usual compression ratios, or forced induction applications which raise the effective compression ratio.

People can blather all they want about how much better the car runs on premium, etc. but they are in fact kidding themselves. This assumes they have an engine designed for regular.
If their engine is designed for 91 or higher then of course their engine will run better with premium that it would if they ran 87 in it.

 

[justeddie]

This has been discuss to death already... so let me sum it all up one more time for the OP.

TurboDave and others have clearly proven that through their own findings that higher octane DOES NOT promote better MPG.

BUT others and myself included, have found through our own findings, that according to HONDA, you can attain an average of 6-10HP from the V6 if you use 91 octane. But bottom line you won't feel the difference.

THEREFORE using premium is useless for an engine that runs just fine on regular... just stay away from ethonal as much as you can. :thmsup:

 

[stevel]

my '06 MT6 sedan pinged on 87, alot. exact same pinging that my '05 TL did(required premium). same same. even though the accord was "engineered" to run on 87, use 93, no ping, ever. thus using 93 in that car was better for it as it made it not ping. make sense?

and there are a few gas stations around me that have ethanol in 87 and 89, but specify NO ethanol in the 93. another plus to that premium.

 

[RTexasF]

Odd you should ask this. I have been trying an experiment with the last three tanks of fuel using 89 as opposed to 87 as usual. The first tank I'll dismiss since it was half 87 and half 89. The next fill up was 14 gallons of 89 and the MPG that I always get (same conditions, trips, operator, A/C always on) dropped by 1.5!!! In addition I felt no added oomph with the additional two octane points.

The next tank (13.5 gallons I recall) was down by 2.0 mpg....same conditions.

If the third is down once again my experiment is over, it's back to 87 for this old boy. My constant in town summer MPG with A/C on is 25 + or - .2 . This average has remained constant over many many months, years in fact. I have done my best to eliminate variables between tanks. Tires were at 35 front and 33 rear the entire time. Straight gasoline in all instances no ethanol mix. One half MPG + or - I consider insignificant but more than that is significant to me, I know my car, the mileage it attains and it's performance.

Scientific? Hardly but enough for me (providing a similar drop in the next tank) to use 87 and FUHGETABOUTIT concerning higher more expensive octane. If it's back up to the norm or a little better I'll run three more tanks of 89 to see what happens.

My gut feeling? Unless your car pings on regular unleaded stick with it.

The worst part is I really wanted to feel a little additional "go" with the 89 but so far I have not.

 

[turbodave]

my '06 MT6 sedan pinged on 87, alot. exact same pinging that my '05 TL did(required premium). same same. even though the accord was "engineered" to run on 87, use 93, no ping, ever. thus using 93 in that car was better for it as it made it not ping. make sense?

and there are a few gas stations around me that have ethanol in 87 and 89, but specify NO ethanol in the 93. another plus to that premium.

Then your '06 MT6 was (for whatever reason) out of tune, or something else (bad gas or whatever) needed attention. There's no reason that it should ping on 87, assuming it was designed to (can't answer that one as I'm not familiar with the '06 MT6 octane requirements)

 

[berg]

I tried it.i know we don't have the same car but im back to 87 and while on 89 i saw no increase in mpg or anything.

 

[stevel]

Then your '06 MT6 was (for whatever reason) out of tune, or something else (bad gas or whatever) needed attention. There's no reason that it should ping on 87, assuming it was designed to (can't answer that one as I'm not familiar with the '06 MT6 octane requirements)

what would you have "tuned". the cam timing? not talking about a 70's car. did it from day one new under very certain circumstances only. car was fine, the demo I drove(not the one I bought) did the same thing.

 

[VTECaddict]

would using 89 be a good compromise since it should contain more pure gasoline per gallon as opposed to using 87, which is weaker+is usually blended with ethanol or using premium which is considered a waste?

octane is NOT a measure of gasoline purity. higher octane is NOT cleaner. its NOT purer. it is NOT better quality. it does NOT have more energy content.

octane rating is ONLY a measure of the gasoline's resistance to detonation. this is important for engines with high compression because you dont want the fuel to ignite on its own.

 

[turbodave]

octane is NOT a measure of gasoline purity. higher octane is NOT cleaner. its NOT purer. it is NOT better quality. it does NOT have more energy content.

What I was trying to say, you just said it better!

octane rating is ONLY a measure of the gasoline's resistance to detonation. this is important for engines with high compression because you dont want the fuel to ignite on its own.

 

[Cg006]

octane is NOT a measure of gasoline purity. higher octane is NOT cleaner. its NOT purer. it is NOT better quality. it does NOT have more energy content.

octane rating is ONLY a measure of the gasoline's resistance to detonation. this is important for engines with high compression because you dont want the fuel to ignite on its own.

OK......... (crawls to a corner in a fetal position) lol

All jokes aside though...Well thank you everyone for clearing that up for me. Alot of you answered and commented on my questions. I guess my logic was all wrong..lol... you guys saved me the headache of "experimenting" if it makes no difference. So i guess i will just have to get my car looked at get my engine tuned. Pretty much as i said before i have been looking at all these alternatives with the purpose to increase my cars gas mileage. I have another thread where i was posting pics of my spark plugs and someone commented that my engine seems to run rich. So i may have a real problem elsewhere. I thought with the gas grade i would have seen a little improvement. If you dont mind taking a peak at my spark plugs and comment feel free. this is the link to the other thread. I know some of you may say i wasted money ($25bux) but hey we live and we learn . Ive seen people spend worse money. $25 bux wont break the bank :dunno:

here is the link:
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?p=288618#post288618

 

[stevencrosbie]

Cg006,

25 bucks is cheap school. Don't feel bad.

All engines will run rich at certain points. They run rich in a cold start scenario as well as when you are WOT. You don't want a vehicle to be lean at WOT b/c of the large amount of damage that can occur.

From what I've seen, WOT in any car nowadays will give you a rich scenario for saftey.

 

[RTexasF]

The plugs in the link look perfectly normal to me. The color is right but the gap is unknown unless you posted it and I missed it. Those should last until 100K miles or more and there is no reason to replace them unless you have a problem directly attributed to the plugs. A few folks have replaced them around 80K and claimed a + in performance and mileage but who knows for sure? It's all opinion.

Since you lost one, four new ones are in order. They should be pre-gapped but it's worth the short amount of time involved to check them. As our resident expert FredSVT has said, the tips are easily broken and extreme care is to be taken if the gap is not correct.

 

[RTexasF]

From what I've seen, WOT in any car nowadays will give you a rich scenario for saftey.

Mine must run rich quite a bit! :yes: (Old hot rodders never die, they just drive stick shift Hondas)

 

[Cg006]

The plugs in the link look perfectly normal to me. The color is right but the gap is unknown unless you posted it and I missed it. Those should last until 100K miles or more and there is no reason to replace them unless you have a problem directly attributed to the plugs. A few folks have replaced them around 80K and claimed a + in performance and mileage but who knows for sure? It's all opinion.

Since you lost one, four new ones are in order. They should be pre-gapped but it's worth the short amount of time involved to check them. As our resident expert FredSVT has said, the tips are easily broken and extreme care is to be taken if the gap is not correct.

i would think the gap should be the honda .044 since these are the OEM ones (at least i think so). when i order my next 4 NGKs they should be pregapped already. i will buy the little tool to check anyways before i put them in. Guess i will be using my acdelcos for a week or so..lol
i ordered these form sparkplugs.com
NGK Laser Iridium Long Life 6994 IZFR6K-11 (these are the same ones i took out. and they comne pregapped at .044

 

[RTexasF]

As FredSVT has pointed out previously check the gap ONLY with a wire type gapping tool.
If any adjustment is needed use extreme caution to avoid damaging the tip which is brittle.