[Half-Breed]

I think we can all agree that DOHCs are superior to their SOHC counterparts right? So then, why would Honda stick with SOHC's in almost all their V6 engines. It can't be cost reduction, for the TL (type-s excluded) and RL both use them. Some have told me that V6's don't need the dual setup because they are already powerful enough. OK, but then why does the Nissan VQ motor (which is in everything Nissan or Infiniti makes when it comes to having 6 cylinders) need 2 cams? What about the New V6 Camary?
Seems to me that I got jipped out of an extra cam shaft.
:dunno:

 

[chanke4252]

they took our jorbs!

 

[ezshift5]

they took our jorbs!

...great response!!

..ez..

 

[Matt-Guy]

they took our jorbs!

Ok, Coach Z.

 

[VTECaddict]

the J-series is still stacking up quite well against the competition, and is arguably one of the smoothest V6's on the market today. not bad at all for a nearly 10 year old engine, if i do say so myself.

so why should honda throw down all that money to engineer and build an all new DOHC V6? just so they can change the "S" to a "D" on all their spec sheets?

but dont worry. honda is probably already working on a new V6 as we speak. we're just not going to see it until the almighty J reaches its peak.

 

[chanke4252]

agreed. this engine is still pretty bitchin' compared to the competition, especially when you look at power output vs. economy, it just can't be beat by anything out there currently. This and the old 4 litre behemoth some jeeps use (although I think they might only use it in the wrangler now, not sure on that one) are my two all time fav engines (that ive driven). That jeep engine isnt hugely powerful given the displacement, but paired with a manual it seems unstoppable.

 

[joemomma]

Yeah, the v6 is very bitchin.

 

[Conundrum]

I'll agree that a DHOC V6 from Honda for the Accord would have been nice, but really I think its amazing that Honda can build a SOHC V6 like the J30A4/5 that performs better than most other DOHC V6s on the market today. Sure the VQ is an amazing engine (hey, your talking to someone who wanted a G35 coupe but couldn't stomach the costs...lol), but I still can't get over how much the J30A5 in my 2006 has to offer, esp considering how little fuel it burns in doing so...its really amazing at times.

About the ONLY changes I really would have liked to see on the J30 would have been the addition of i-Vtec with VTC, as it would have been nice to have its full power available at whatever rpm I want, rather than having to be at or above the Vtec cross-over point...and also to have a chain-driven system, so there would be no timing belt to worry about (Honda said a long time back belts are smoother, but the K24 uses a chain, and its plenty smooth).

 

[BenjiBoy650]

Toyota needed a DOHC engine because their 3.0L and 3.3L were based off the V6 engine that was introduced in the 1988 Camry. The J-series came out in 1998 or so, started out with much more advanced architecture and continued to improve (ie. exhaust manifolds integrated into the block). As we see it now, the 3.3L from Toyota is producing 215HP compared to Honda's 244HP from a 3.0L in the Accord and 286HP from a 3.5L in the TL Type-S, all the way up to a 300HP 3.7L in the 2007 MDX. Comparing apples to apples, the 3.5L in the Camry was a brand new engine introduced in the 2005 Avalon and produces 268HP. The 3.5L in the TL Type-S produces 286HP and the engine architecture was introduced in 1998.

As you can see, DOHC vs. SOHC is not a critical measure of a "high tech" engine. DOHC has actually been tested by numerous manufacturers for a long time (including GM/Cadillac in the 1930's or 1940's), not to mention that the bulletproof Chevy 350, among others, has always been a simple design. Extra camshafts require more components and that just adds to the cost/complexity of an engine, which is not desirable at all, nor does it always produce a desirable effect as shown above. If you've driven a Toyota 3.0L or a 3.3L, you will find they produce no real top end power, despite the DOHC heads which should flow air better at high speeds. It's all about how they're tuned to work.

DOHC has been primarily used on 4 cylinder Honda's for the reason that a 4 cylinder only has one head, compared to two on the V6. Arguably, a DOHC will probably have more potential but the gains wouldn't be apparent in a daily driver. Where you really start to see it is on cars like this 1700HP VQ35 or this 5.5PSI turbo VQ making 348WHP/386lb-ft. The other time when you see major gains is when you want to take an engine to the limits of a factory tuned motor. There was talk that Toyota may possibly reintroduce the Supra with a V6, which might well be based off the 3.5L. Nissan is probably also planning to up the HP in the 350Z, and DOHC will help accomplish that. Again, in a typical normal daily driver, you don't see the gains as much as you might think.

 

[Fredsvt]

there is also one thing that having a sohc arrangement in the Accord better.
SERVICEABILITY. The engine is much more compact than the VQ in the Nissans.

That engine, in all its forms is not easy to work on and it is much wider in the top end than the J series.

Look at all other makes V6s, especially domestic models, the dohc arrangement makes the engines especially wide. And if you go to the few 90 degree V6s that GM uses they are HUGELY wide.

I'd like to see the J series re-engineered to use timing chains rather than a belt, like the K series 4 cylinder. Then you may see it go to i-vtec (vtc) as the sohc arrangement does not allow for intake side variable timing, as does the dohc.

 

[fastball]

Honda has always been at the forefront of modern engine design. They are first and foremost an engine company. All you have to do is think back to the Civic CVCC which surpassed 1973 US emission limits without a catalytic converter. Unheard of at the time. So even though the engine has only one cam in each head, it doesn't mean it's an inferior motor.

 

[Acc6MT]

there is also one thing that having a sohc arrangement in the Accord better.
SERVICEABILITY. The engine is much more compact than the VQ in the Nissans.

That engine, in all its forms is not easy to work on and it is much wider in the top end than the J series.

Look at all other makes V6s, especially domestic models, the dohc arrangement makes the engines especially wide. And if you go to the few 90 degree V6s that GM uses they are HUGELY wide.

I'd like to see the J series re-engineered to use timing chains rather than a belt, like the K series 4 cylinder. Then you may see it go to i-vtec (vtc) as the sohc arrangement does not allow for intake side variable timing, as does the dohc.

I thought VTEC in V6s only worked on intake valves!

 

[Half-Breed]

there is also one thing that having a sohc arrangement in the Accord better.
SERVICEABILITY. The engine is much more compact than the VQ in the Nissans.

That engine, in all its forms is not easy to work on and it is much wider in the top end than the J series.

Look at all other makes V6s, especially domestic models, the dohc arrangement makes the engines especially wide. And if you go to the few 90 degree V6s that GM uses they are HUGELY wide.

I'd like to see the J series re-engineered to use timing chains rather than a belt, like the K series 4 cylinder. Then you may see it go to i-vtec (vtc) as the sohc arrangement does not allow for intake side variable timing, as does the dohc.

Suppose; now that I think about it, the hood on an Altima is pretty damn big.
One dealer called the proportions on the '06 Altimas "Nascar styling" :hic:
"I reckin wez coud race dem Kneesans aroun a bit" :headbash:
Anyway, I think the "it's working, why change it?" reason probably is the main culprit here. Yes, the SOHC does a great job, but just imagine the same level of enginering in a DOHC! It seems the only thing needed for the TL to get DOHCs was an "S" badge. If that's the case, I'm going to my local speed shop tomorrow to buy a "slap-on red S badge". Somehow I don't think my engine will morph into a super J30 though

 

[stevencrosbie]

The TLS has a SOHC J35 engine. There is not DOHC in the TL or RL. I think the NSX is the only V6 to have DOHC.

As for me, I like Honda's simple design. Less to go wrong, but I agree, a new V6 w/ DOHC might be really awesome.

 

[Half-Breed]

The TLS has a SOHC J35 engine. There is not DOHC in the TL or RL. I think the NSX is the only V6 to have DOHC.

As for me, I like Honda's simple design. Less to go wrong, but I agree, a new V6 w/ DOHC might be really awesome.

Yeah, well Honda is going to start feeling the pressure when this '07 Altima comes out. 268 HP teamed with the X-tronic tranny might give Honda a run for it's money in the "smooth power department".

 

[Conundrum]

You have to remember too that after a certain point more power in a FF car doesn't really help things at all. In reality, if Honda wanted to improve things they'd have to up the power AND switch over to either a FR or AWD layout for their "faster" cars. In a way they are doing this, as I remember hearing that they are trying to make Acura's entire lineup AWD capable as the next gen cars roll in...although this does kinda leave the Accord "out of the loop"...

Btw, just looked up what xtronic was and noticed its a CVT...ugh, I'd still take the proper MT but thats just me.

 

[dads-car]

Btw, just looked up what xtronic was and noticed its a CVT...ugh, I'd still take the proper MT but thats just me.

Ewww.

When you floor it, and the RPM goes to, say, 6500, and stays there forever, it gets soooo boring.

 

[BenjiBoy650]

The Altima V6 uses DOHC 3.5L V6 to produce 270HP. The TL-S uses an SOHC 3.5L V6 to produce 286HP. It would not be a long shot to detune that engine and put it into an Accord and make it 270HP. I'm not sure why still all the hubbub about DOHC vs. SOHC...as far as I'm concerned the SOHC looks like it's a clear winner here? Simpler + equal or better power

 

[Half-Breed]

The Altima V6 uses DOHC 3.5L V6 to produce 270HP. The TL-S uses an SOHC 3.5L V6 to produce 286HP. It would not be a long shot to detune that engine and put it into an Accord and make it 270HP. I'm not sure why still all the hubbub about DOHC vs. SOHC...as far as I'm concerned the SOHC looks like it's a clear winner here? Simpler + equal or better power

Yeah, I guess the SOHC Vs. DOHC debate may be scewed a bit due to Honda making really good SOHC motors.

 

[chanke4252]

You have to remember too that after a certain point more power in a FF car doesn't really help things at all. In reality, if Honda wanted to improve things they'd have to up the power AND switch over to either a FR or AWD layout for their "faster" cars. In a way they are doing this, as I remember hearing that they are trying to make Acura's entire lineup AWD capable as the next gen cars roll in...although this does kinda leave the Accord "out of the loop"...

Btw, just looked up what xtronic was and noticed its a CVT...ugh, I'd still take the proper MT but thats just me.

hopefully they don't use their SH-AWD (think acura rl) because that means no manual unless they figure out a way to pair them up, which i dont see happening. It seems more likely that they'll switch over to an awd system that is similar to what most other companies use, though I don't see that happening either.