[820-5507-A]

I have done at least 8 oil changes on this 2008 Accord with the 2.4L engine, and the first 5 or so I hadnt bothered to use a torque wrench (I only used a short ratchet so I wouldnt over tighten) or replace the crush washer. The past 3 oil changes I replaced the aluminum crush washer and I used a torque wrench set to 29 lb/ft.

Today when I was tightening the drain plug with the torque wrench the bolt seemed to get loose after I had it “snug”. I figured that was the washer crushing and I used my ratchet (holding the head of the ratchet) to snug it again and then the same thing happened with the torque wrench where it got somewhat tight then before it clicked it got loose again.

Is it really possible I stripped the threads on the oil pan while using a torque wrench? I had just used this torque wrench 5 mins before this for the automatic transmission drain plug with its new washer where I had it set to 34 lb/ft and I had no issues.

I took the car for a short drive and the oil plug was bone dry, and I will check it soon as Im afraid of the plug backing out / leaking as it is only “snug” right now.

 

[hondasa]

I suggest you re-calibrate torque wrench to be safe for future use.

I own a 2008 2.4 Executive and I have performed more than 20 oil changes outside of warranty - finger tight and 180 degrees with new crush washer fitted every time. Never had any issues.

 

[a1smith]

What brand torque wrench?

 

[visionguru]

....
Today when I was tightening the drain plug with the torque wrench the bolt seemed to get loose after I had it “snug”. ..

What do you mean by "seemed to get loose"? At 29 ft-lb, the washer is not exactly "crushed", barely a mark if at all. Don't try to keep turning it, if it's not leaking, I wouldn't 2nd guess.

I'm using Snap On tech angle now, but have used Harbor Freight $10 ones for many years without issues.

 

[0dyfamily]

I once purchased a generic auto parts store torque wrench, and found it was nearly 100% out of spec when measured against a known good torque wrench (recently checked by a friend who worked at a PMEL.) I returned it, and had my other torque wrenches checked.

Crush washers are made of low-to-no-alloy aluminum. Crush washers have a weaker compression modulus than, say, aluminum alloy used for soda cans. It's pretty much basic, plain aluminum.

29 ft-lbs. will cause slight plastic deformation of an oil pan drain bolt crush washer. Like @visionguru noted, barely a mark at all, but just enough to make a good, leak-free seal.

Whenever I torque a fresh crush washer, it can be unnerving, because it feels like there's a "soft spot" while turning it (i.e., feels like a little less torque required than when I first started tightening it), then it gets a little tougher to turn, followed by that re-assuring click of the wrench.

Happens every single time, whether it's an ATF or CVTF drain bolt crush washer, oil pan drain plug crush washer, ATF fill port plug crush washer, or CVT high level port plug crush washer. It always makes me feel like I was stripping something, but so far I haven't.

OF

 

[820-5507-A]

What brand torque wrench?

Pittsburgh. Althought I think it’s worth noting this was my newest torque wrench, Ive only had it for less than a year and it has never been dropped and never seemed to be off. Thank you for your reply

 

[820-5507-A]

I suggest you re-calibrate torque wrench to be safe for future use.

I own a 2008 2.4 Executive and I have performed more than 20 oil changes outside of warranty - finger tight and 180 degrees with new crush washer fitted every time. Never had any issues.

Will do, I am very surprised this happened since the torque wrench does have a very long handle (its a 5-80 lb/ft 3/8 drive) and Im not too sure if I made it to 180° after finger tight before the plug felt like it was getting loose. Thank you for your quick reply

 

[820-5507-A]

What do you mean by "seemed to get loose"? At 29 ft-lb, the washer is not exactly "crushed", barely a mark if at all. Don't try to keep turning it, if it's not leaking, I wouldn't 2nd guess.

I'm using Snap On tech angle now, but have used Harbor Freight $10 ones for many years without issues.

It went from giving me some resistance (just past finger tight) to being back to the point where I could turn it with my wrist by putting my hand on the head of my ratchet. I was using a relatively new HF Pittsburgh 3/8" Drive torque wrench that worked just fine with the ATF drain plug @ 34 lb/ft just a few minutes before I went to torque the engine oil drain plug. My first torque wrench was a Pittsburgh 1/2" drive that I used for years before getting another and I never had an issue with that one either.

Do you think if it was going to leak that I would be able to see drips after about 20 miles of driving?

Thank you for your reply!

 

[820-5507-A]

I once purchased a generic auto parts store torque wrench, and found it was nearly 100% out of spec when measured against a known good torque wrench (recently checked by a friend who worked at a PMEL.) I returned it, and had my other torque wrenches checked.

Crush washers are made of low-to-no-alloy aluminum. Crush washers have a weaker compression modulus than, say, aluminum alloy used for soda cans. It's pretty much basic, plain aluminum.

29 ft-lbs. will cause slight plastic deformation of an oil pan drain bolt crush washer. Like @visionguru noted, barely a mark at all, but just enough to make a good, leak-free seal.

Whenever I torque a fresh crush washer, it can be unnerving, because it feels like there's a "soft spot" while turning it (i.e., feels like a little less torque required than when I first started tightening it), then it gets a little tougher to turn, followed by that re-assuring click of the wrench.

Happens every single time, whether it's an ATF or CVTF drain bolt crush washer, oil pan drain plug crush washer, ATF fill port plug crush washer, or CVT high level port plug crush washer. It always makes me feel like I was stripping something, but so far I haven't.

OF

Thank you for replying, I will check the wrench against some of my others before returning / getting it calibrated. The new washer for the ATF plug had the normal slight soft spot feeling Ive felt with past oil changes before my wrench clicked (set to 34 lb/ft), and I expected the same from the oil drain plug. However it seemed that that soft spot was "longer" as in it took another 1/2 - 3/4 of a turn to feel snug again and also it did it again.

I am just so shocked that I might have stripped the pan when I was doing everything properly (I used to reuse the crush washers and just put the plug in relatively tight, def over spec looking back but I knew not to go crazy).

Thanks again for replying and sharing this information!

 

[Miker]

Does the 2008 2.4 transmission used a different size crush washer than the oil plug?

Since you performed the ATF and engine oil service both washers would be available to you to choose.

Is it possible you inadvertently used an ATF crush washer with the larger ID mistakenly for the smaller ID crush washer meant for the oil pan? I'm familiar with my 2013 V6 that has two different sized washers that I REPEATEDLY check just for this reason.

The larger ID of the ATF would fit looser on the engine oil plug, but would fit. When torqued to limits it is possible to deform it to a point where you might feel the bolt to "loosen". It actually might extrude the washer since there is less purchase area for the bolt flange.

 

[820-5507-A]

Does the 2008 2.4 transmission used a different size crush washer than the oil plug?

Since you performed the ATF and engine oil service both washers would be available to you to choose.

Is it possible you inadvertently used an ATF crush washer with the larger ID mistakenly for the smaller ID crush washer meant for the oil pan? I'm familiar with my 2013 V6 that has two different sized washers that I REPEATEDLY check just for this reason.

The larger ID of the ATF would fit looser on the engine oil plug, but would fit. When torqued to limits it is possible to deform it to a point where you might feel the bolt to "loosen". It actually might extrude the washer since there is less purchase area for the bolt flange.

Yes, the engine oil and ATF drain plug gaskets are actually the same for the 2008 L4 as your 2013 V6.

I had only 1 of the ATF drain plug washer (the parts guy at the dealership gave it to me for free when I picked up the ATF) and I didn't grab the oil plug washer until I had already installed and torqued the transmission drain plug. It might be worth noting that the engine oil drain plug washers I use aren't from Honda, they're DORMAN 095144.

Thank you for replying! Do you use OEM washers for both?

 

[Miker]

OEM, only because they were the quickest to get into my hands at the time. So I got a quantity of each that should last the life of the car's oil/ATF changes !!

I would guess the DORMAN are at least as good as the OEM but even if it were more malleable I would think the seal would be fine.

Only other question I'd have that might explain a possible "stripped" thread feeling is if both the old (still stuck to the pan) and new crush washer was installed in addition and very few threads made contact during torquing. That would be a long shot, but......

 

[820-5507-A]

OEM, only because they were the quickest to get into my hands at the time. So I got a quantity of each that should last the life of the car's oil/ATF changes !!

I would guess the DORMAN are at least as good as the OEM but even if it were more malleable I would think the seal would be fine.

Only other question I'd have that might explain a possible "stripped" thread feeling is if both the old (still stuck to the pan) and new crush washer was installed in addition and very few threads made contact during torquing. That would be a long shot, but......

I spent a solid 3 minutes getting the old washer off the drain plug so I know for sure it wasn't stuck to the pan haha. I've used the Dorman gaskets for a while and this is the first time I've ever had an issue with somethings as simple as an oil change.

 

[visionguru]

It went from giving me some resistance (just past finger tight) to being back to the point where I could turn it with my wrist by putting my hand on the head of my ratchet. I was using a relatively new HF Pittsburgh 3/8" Drive torque wrench that worked just fine with the ATF drain plug @ 34 lb/ft just a few minutes before I went to torque the engine oil drain plug. My first torque wrench was a Pittsburgh 1/2" drive that I used for years before getting another and I never had an issue with that one either.

Do you think if it was going to leak that I would be able to see drips after about 20 miles of driving?

Thank you for your reply!

The bolt is stripped. Steel vs aluminum, it might not be your fault. Plenty of solutions, such as install a oil valve, re-thread, longer bolt. As the last resort, oil pan is not that expensive, totally DIYable.

Though stripped, the bolt is unlikely to suddenly allow drastic oil leak. Keep some oil in trunk and keep an eye on it, until you get it fixed.

 

[a1smith]

Pittsburgh. Althought I think it’s worth noting this was my newest torque wrench, Ive only had it for less than a year and it has never been dropped and never seemed to be off. Thank you for your reply

Harbor Freight (Pittsburgh) torque wrenches are notorious for over/under torquing. I did it once on a skid plate bolt for my truck; luckily I noticed what was happening . . . Once was enough, I no longer have them.

Some people have good luck with them - others don't. There is a wide variance with them. The Icon brand torque wrenches they sell now are supposed to be better.

You should compare that torque wrench to a known good one. Or check it on a calibrator. Or do a dead weight test.

Also, what was the torque range of the torque wrench you used? OK, I see from above it is 5-80 lb/ft 3/8 drive. Let me look up specs and will comment more. ---> So, for these torque wrenches it looks like the only spec (in most manuals) is +/- 4%. They don't give a separate CW/CCW spec (like Ikon does) and they also don't mention for what part of the range the +/- 4% spec is for (big hint - it's not for the whole range). Even more expensive torque wrenches are typically not as accurate at the lower end of their ranges.

 

[visionguru]

Harbor Freight (Pittsburgh) torque wrenches are notorious for over torquing. I did it once on a skid plate bolt for my truck; luckily I noticed what was happening . . . Once was enough, I no longer have them.

Some people have good luck with them - others don't. There is a wide variance with them. The Icon brand torque wrenches they sell now are supposed to be better.

You should compare that torque wrench to a known good one. Or check it on a calibrator. Or do a dead weight test.

Also, what was the torque range of the torque wrench you used? OK, I see from above it is 5-80 lb/ft 3/8 drive. Let me look up specs and will comment more. ---> So, for these torque wrenches it looks like the only spec (in most manuals) is +/- 4%. They don't give a separate CW/CCW spec (like Ikon does) and they also don't mention for what part of the range the +/- 4% spec is for (big hint - it's not for the whole range). Even more expensive torque wrenches are typically not as accurate at the lower end of their ranges.

I had Harbor Freight 3/8" 5~80 ft-lb torque wrench for over 10 years. It's not working anymore due to rust. I brought it to Harbor Freight, they simply gave me a new one as "life time warranty" replacement.

The following are the results, comparing against a Powerbuilt digital torque adapter:

Torque setting (ft-lb) Reading #1 Reading #2 Reading #3
10 ==============> 9.8 10.5 10.7
20 ==============> 19.3 20.6 19.7
30 ==============> 29.2 29.3 29.6
40 ==============> 40.5 40.1 40.4
50 ==============> 51.0 51.0 50.8
60 ==============> 62.8 63.0 63.0
70 ==============> 72.5 72.7 73.7

It is most accurate at 40 ft-lb (about 1% error), 30 and 50 (about 2% error), at lower and higher end of the range, the error is about 4%~5%. Not bad for a low cost torque wrench, but we can clearly see the non-linearity of the accuracy.

IMHO, over torquing is mostly due to user error. If someone unfamiliar with the torque wrench, missed the click and kept pulling.

 

[a1smith]

I had Harbor Freight 3/8" 5~80 ft-lb torque wrench for over 10 years. It's not working anymore due to rust. I brought it to Harbor Freight, they simply gave me a new one as "life time warranty" replacement.

The following are the results, comparing against a Powerbuilt digital torque adapter:

Torque setting (ft-lb) Reading #1 Reading #2 Reading #3
10 ==============> 9.8 10.5 10.7
20 ==============> 19.3 20.6 19.7
30 ==============> 29.2 29.3 29.6
40 ==============> 40.5 40.1 40.4
50 ==============> 51.0 51.0 50.8
60 ==============> 62.8 63.0 63.0
70 ==============> 72.5 72.7 73.7

It is most accurate at 40 ft-lb (about 1% error), 30 and 50 (about 2% error), at lower and higher end of the range, the error is about 4%~5%. Not bad for a low cost torque wrench, but we can clearly see the non-linearity of the accuracy.

IMHO, over torquing is mostly due to user error. If someone unfamiliar with the torque wrench, missed the click and kept pulling.

Your % errors are assuming that the Powerbuilt digital torque adapter has 0% error.

With some "click" torque wrenches the "click" can be rather muted and easy to miss. With the torque wrenches like the Pittsburgh another "operator error" issue is setting the wrong value. Another issue is not locking the knob after setting the torque and it drifts some while using it.

 

[a1smith]

I had Harbor Freight 3/8" 5~80 ft-lb torque wrench for over 10 years. It's not working anymore due to rust. I brought it to Harbor Freight, they simply gave me a new one as "life time warranty" replacement.

The following are the results, comparing against a Powerbuilt digital torque adapter:

Torque setting (ft-lb) Reading #1 Reading #2 Reading #3
10 ==============> 9.8 10.5 10.7
20 ==============> 19.3 20.6 19.7
30 ==============> 29.2 29.3 29.6
40 ==============> 40.5 40.1 40.4
50 ==============> 51.0 51.0 50.8
60 ==============> 62.8 63.0 63.0
70 ==============> 72.5 72.7 73.7

It is most accurate at 40 ft-lb (about 1% error), 30 and 50 (about 2% error), at lower and higher end of the range, the error is about 4%~5%. Not bad for a low cost torque wrench, but we can clearly see the non-linearity of the accuracy.

IMHO, over torquing is mostly due to user error. If someone unfamiliar with the torque wrench, missed the click and kept pulling.

Here's another 5-80 ft-lb 3/8" torque wrench test using dead weights. In this particular case, it was under torquing by a significant margin at the low end and didn't get to -4% until the high end of the scale.

Then, he tests the 1/2" torque wrench and gets better results.

As I said, "Some people have good luck with them - others don't. There is a wide variance with them." YMMV

 

[Ang]

No need for a torque wrench, especially a big one where it's easy to over tighten. I make it right with a small wrench and I've never had an issue.

 

[uscourt3000]

I suggest you re-calibrate torque wrench to be safe for future use.

I own a 2008 2.4 Executive and I have performed more than 20 oil changes outside of warranty - finger tight and 180 degrees with new crush washer fitted every time. Never had any issues.

I can second that idea of re-calibrating since with my Craftsman, I foolishly left it set to 30 or so, then found it wasn't working correctly and Sears took it back and re-calibrated it for me.
The key I figured out, was to always, always, reset the torque wrench back to zero for storage.