[moeSizlak]

So what are the possible implications of disabling the lower speed mode(s)? Does this affect fuel mileage?

If you google "NHTSA Recall 19V-060" there is some info:

January 2016
Part 573 Safety Recall Report 19V-060 Page 7
The information contained in this report was submitted pursuant to 49 CFR §573
Honda received the first report of an engine stall. As the frequency of claims was minimal, Honda decided to
continue monitoring the market.
August to September 2017
After receipt of additional engine stall reports, Honda launched an investigation. Failed return parts were sent
to the fuel pump supplier and the supplier was able to re-create the engine stalling condition with operating
the fuel pump in 10 V mode. Fuel pump operating voltage can vary between 10 V-13 V.
October to November 2017
Sodium deposits were found on the brush and commutator components in the failed fuel pumps.
December 2017 to June 2018
Honda conducted additional tests and determined the source of sodium was from low quality fuels. No
correlation between fuel and sodium content was found in any particular geographic region. Re-creation tests
confirmed that fuel containing greater than one part per million of sodium could result in restricted vehicle
acceleration and/or engine stall.
July to November 2018
Continued testing confirmed that fuel pump operation in 10 V mode allowed for the accumulation of sodium in
the fuel pump, which resulted in increased mechanical and electrical resistance and reduction in fuel pump
performance. Depending on ambient temperatures, reduced fuel pump performance can lead to restricted/
rough acceleration and/or an engine stall. The spark in higher voltage operation in the 11.2 V-13 V range was
also confirmed to dissolve sodium accumulation, allowing for full fuel pump rotation speed and flow rate.
December 11, 2018
Fuel injection ECUs with software that eliminated low voltage operating modes began to be used in mass
production.
January 22, 2019
Honda determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed and decided to conduct a safety recall.
As of January 22, 2019, Honda has received 731 warranty claims, 102 field reports, and no reports of crashes or
injuries related to this issue.

 

[longhornaccord]

I have a 2015 V6 and logged into www.owners.accord.com and checked my car's VIN for the recall and it came up as yes it's on the list for this. However, I haven't had any problems with my car so based on some of the comments in this thread, I think I'm going to wait until I start having problems. Sounds like this software update may cause some problems in acceleration (slower)? Sounds like some of you are also holding off on this if you're not experiencing current problems.

 

[AlanTheBeastV2]

Honda conducted additional tests and determined the source of sodium was from low quality fuels.

July to November 2018
Continued testing confirmed that fuel pump operation in 10 V mode allowed for the accumulation of sodium in
the fuel pump, which resulted in increased mechanical and electrical resistance and reduction in fuel pump
performance. Depending on ambient temperatures, reduced fuel pump performance can lead to restricted/
rough acceleration and/or an engine stall. The spark in higher voltage operation in the 11.2 V-13 V range was
also confirmed to dissolve sodium accumulation, allowing for full fuel pump rotation speed and flow rate.

I am completely flumoxed with this. How is sodium from the fuel getting into the pump motor? These two things (fuel and pump motor) are very isolated from one another.

 

[emeron]

I am completely flumoxed with this. How is sodium from the fuel getting into the pump motor? These two things (fuel and pump motor) are very isolated from one another.

Well, the fuel pump is inside the fuel tank so...

On the CVT cars, what happens if the engine fails? Does it go to neutral automatically?

Treating this as a purely hypothetical exercise, let's discuss what kind of engine failure. Is the crankshaft free to rotate, or is the engine all mangled up and seized? If the crank is free, then the result (I imagine) would be similar to rolling off the gas. If the engine suddenly locks up, the result would depend on whether you are above or below the speed threshold where the torque converter mechanically locks. If driving slow, then the flywheel and the cone-box is only hydraulically coupled. The effect (I imagine) would be similar to engine braking after an aggressive downshift. If cruising at highway speed, and flywheel and the cone-box are mechanically coupled, the flywheel suddenly stops but the wheels keep on turning, I am afraid you may be in the market for an entire drivetrain.

Good question. I would like others to chime in. If any real life experiences, please share.

 

[sandevino]

I took mine into the dealer today for the TSB fix and the service advisor said there are two parts to this TSB.

The first part is a visual inspection of the fuel pump case to verify there ar no cracks in the housing. This requires gaining visual access to the fuel pump and validating the pump housing is in tact.

The second is flashing the ECU to remove the low speed mode from the pump.

Once the flash is complete, the pump runs at full voltage / power all the time instead of dialing back the voltage at idle or at highway speeds under VCM operation.

In the 6 speed models, there is no low speed / VCM operation mode so there’s no flash as the pump is running at full power.

 

[第9世代]

I took mine into the dealer today for the TSB fix and the service advisor said there are two parts to this TSB.

The first part is a visual inspection of the fuel pump case to verify there ar no cracks in the housing. This requires gaining visual access to the fuel pump and validating the pump housing is in tact.

The second is flashing the ECU to remove the low speed mode from the pump.

Once the flash is complete, the pump runs at full voltage / power all the time instead of dialing back the voltage at idle or at highway speeds under VCM operation.

In the 6 speed models, there is no low speed / VCM operation mode so there’s no flash as the pump is running at full power.

Good info. I use the VCMTuner. Can I assume the pump will always be running at full speed since the VCM doesn't kick in? I have used Shell regular gas since buying my Accord new. I also use Lucas and Star Tron additives like I have in all my previous vehicles. I have not experienced the glitch described in the recall, although my car has just 36k miles on it. I'm of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Thoughts?

 

[MegaRex]

Since this update on the software, not sure if it's just me, but i'm noticing a change in the MPG, basically it got worst.
Does anyone else noticed that?

 

[sandevino]

Good info. I use the VCMTuner. Can I assume the pump will always be running at full speed since the VCM doesn't kick in? I have used Shell regular gas since buying my Accord new. I also use Lucas and Star Tron additives like I have in all my previous vehicles. I have not experienced the glitch described in the recall, although my car has just 36k miles on it. I'm of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Thoughts?

The VCMTuner tricks the system but the programming and hardware is still there. The V6 6MT does not have VCM period.

The pump will likely drop voltage at idle and when cruising at speed when the VCM kicks in. The tune will eliminate the low speed but not sure if it will make any difference for you.

 

[WhiteOrchid]

Since this update on the software, not sure if it's just me, but i'm noticing a change in the MPG, basically it got worst.
Does anyone else noticed that?

How many tanks of gas have you been through since the update? If just one or two, it will more than likely return to whatever the previous normal was after a tank or two. As mentioned earlier in this thread, after the reflash the computer needs to relearn your driving habits and adjust accordingly as it did when it was brand new. Plus, mileage can typically vary quite a lot from tank to tank depending on the weather, driving conditions, driving method and the combination of city and highway driving involved. It can also vary widely from tank to tank depending on if you used straight gas in one tank and E10 or E15 in the next.

ALSO, I assume you are checking the mileage via actual miles and gallons and math? The MPG figures provided by the computer are not always consistently fully accurate.

 

[BLCKFLSH]

I don't know about the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" idea. The car could hesitate, or stall, at the worst possible time, which is probably the reason for a "SATETY" recall. I certainly wouldn't want my car to stall halfway up one of the tall bridges I drive over.

 

[MegaRex]

Since this update on the software, not sure if it's just me, but i'm noticing a change in the MPG, basically it got worst.
Does anyone else noticed that?

How many tanks of gas have you been through since the update? If just one or two, it will more than likely return to whatever the previous normal was after a tank or two. As mentioned earlier in this thread, after the reflash the computer needs to relearn your driving habits and adjust accordingly as it did when it was brand new. Plus, mileage can typically vary quite a lot from tank to tank depending on the weather, driving conditions, driving method and the combination of city and highway driving involved. It can also vary widely from tank to tank depending on if you used straight gas in one tank and E10 or E15 in the next.

ALSO, I assume you are checking the mileage via actual miles and gallons and math? The MPG figures provided by the computer are not always consistently fully accurate.

I didn’t do any accurate calculations yet, like i was doing previously when just got the car. I was just checking the total miles driven between the refills.
Just to answer on your question, i went through 2 tanks at this moment.
For the last 2 months i do the same route almost everyday, so the combination city/highway is not something that matters in this calculation. Weather could be the major factor affecting that.
Anyway thank you for the reply. I’ll keep an eye on the small details, give it a little bit more time, do some calculations, then i can let you know what I’m going to come up with.

 

[WhiteOrchid]

Given what I've learned about this update (assuming what I've read is true) I don't really see why a manual trans car would need the update. Apparently, without VCM, a manual car's fuel pump never runs at a lower speed so this issue would never really be encountered it would seem. In chatting with a service dude at the dealership they still insist my car is on the recall list (it is) and needs the update regardless of transmission/VCM situation. I only assume that both manual and automatic cars use the same software to control the fuel pump even though a manual, apparently, will never use the slower pump speeds since it will never engage VCM (because it doesn't have VCM).

As mentioned above, the software update strikes me as a band-aid fix. I'm torn about having the update made, but I assume if I refuse to have it done any warranty issues involving the fuel system in the future would be denied. It can also be an issue to sell a car that has an outstanding recall issue (though I plan to have the car for a long time yet). As long as the recall update also includes a physical inspection of the fuel pump I guess I'd consider it worth the effort. In the end the software update shouldn't really make any difference in how a manual car functions at all I guess unless there is more to the software update than just fuel pump speed control.

 

[sandevino]

Given what I've learned about this update (assuming what I've read is true) I don't really see why a manual trans car would need the update. Apparently, without VCM, a manual car's fuel pump never runs at a lower speed so this issue would never really be encountered it would seem. In chatting with a service dude at the dealership they still insist my car is on the recall list (it is) and needs the update regardless of transmission/VCM situation. I only assume that both manual and automatic cars use the same software to control the fuel pump even though a manual, apparently, will never use the slower pump speeds since it will never engage VCM (because it doesn't have VCM).

As mentioned above, the software update strikes me as a band-aid fix. I'm torn about having the update made, but I assume if I refuse to have it done any warranty issues involving the fuel system in the future would be denied. It can also be an issue to sell a car that has an outstanding recall issue (though I plan to have the car for a long time yet). As long as the recall update also includes a physical inspection of the fuel pump I guess I'd consider it worth the effort. In the end the software update shouldn't really make any difference in how a manual car functions at all I guess unless there is more to the software update than just fuel pump speed control.

All valid points and I was of the same opinions. I’ve noticed ZERO difference after the update.

 

[WhiteOrchid]

I've scheduled it for next Monday. I just hope if they do do the fuel pump physical inspection that they don't muck up anything in my back seat (you have to pull the back seat to get at the fuel pump). I've had it out myself and it isn't hard, but you do have to be careful not to break or scratch up any of the plastic or damage the upholstery.

Well hold on, do you only need to remove the lower cushions or the whole rear seat to get at the fuel pump in a coupe? If only the lower cushion it isn't nearly as big of an issue. The bigger issue is getting the seat back out. I've had the back seat completely out (to replace a rear side panel) but I've never had to get at the fuel pump so I don't know exactly where the access for that is actually at.

 

[15accordv6]

I have a 15 v6 coupe and when I search my VIN I do not see the recall. Is this specific to some years, models, etc.?

 

[moeSizlak]

I've had the update for 3 days now and I definitely do notice that the shiftpoints have definitely changed, and the car *feels* more sluggish (like it has less available power, or i need to press the gas pedal further to get the same effect).

Might just be in my head though. In the IT World you wouldn't release a firmware update without a detailed changelog. Wish the same was true for car firmware.

 

[sandevino]

I've scheduled it for next Monday. I just hope if they do do the fuel pump physical inspection that they don't muck up anything in my back seat (you have to pull the back seat to get at the fuel pump). I've had it out myself and it isn't hard, but you do have to be careful not to break or scratch up any of the plastic or damage the upholstery.

Well hold on, do you only need to remove the lower cushions or the whole rear seat to get at the fuel pump in a coupe? If only the lower cushion it isn't nearly as big of an issue. The bigger issue is getting the seat back out. I've had the back seat completely out (to replace a rear side panel) but I've never had to get at the fuel pump so I don't know exactly where the access for that is actually at.

Just the bottom cushion...

 

[WhiteOrchid]

Just the bottom cushion...

Good to know!

 

[longhornaccord]

Please let us know how to remove the back bottom seat cushion as I may do this myself if I decide to take my car in for the recall. I'd rather take it out than have the service tech do that. Thank you!

 

[timidriver]

when I got my 2916 exl-v6, at 600 miles the engine failed- it was a "malfunction of the fuel rail" . repair was done at dealer and never had a problem after that. not sure if that is the same thing, but it was a quick repair

2016 not 2916