[mossberg]

I took my 2001 Accord I4 to a Honda dealer to have a faulty seat belt buckle replaced (under warranty). They performed their multi-point inspection and said the oil pump is leaking and recommended an "oil pump reseal".

They quoted me $1400 for timing belt, balance belt, water pump, drive belts, and the "oil pump reseal". To be clear, this is a Honda dealership, not an indy shop.

Does that sound like the oil pump internal seals, like the gasket between the pump and the cylinder block or the internal o-ring? Or does it sound like the crankshaft seal?

The car is losing about 1qt oil per 1k miles. But here's the interesting part - there are no oil puddles and I'm not seeing smoke out of the exhaust (apart from the usual faint white smoke at startup; it's not billowy white smoke). So I'm not sure where I'm losing all this oil.

I'm thinking that if the gasket between pump and block is leaking, I'd either have lots of oil on the floor (which I don't) or the oil is leaking back into the oil pan, but this would not explain the oil loss. Also, if any leak back into the oil pan is large, I'm guessing I'd have low oil pressure and a CEL/code for this, which I don't.

Also, how the heck are they diagnosing a leak from the oil pump internal seals or the crank seal? Are they taking off the lower timing cover during their multi-point inspections?

I'm going to add some UV dye and see if I can pinpoint the issue. I'm really hoping it's not the oil pump. If it's just the crank seal (front main seal), I think I can replace it myself. But removing the oil pump is a real hassle because it requires removing part of the exhaust and dropping the oil pan.

How common are internal oil pump leaks on Hondas? Are crank/front main seal leaks an order of magnitude or two more common than an internal oil pump leak?

 

[mossberg]

I found this video that shows there's actually a gasket between the rear balancer pulley case and the oil pump. See ~37 seconds into this video:

That gasket can be easily replaced if it's leaking. What is much more involved is accessing the two o-rings on the back side of the oil pump or the mating surfaces of the oil pump and block (I think Honda just calls for liquid gasket here) because accessing any of this requires dropping the oil pan and part of the exhaust.

Looking at those o-rings on the back of the oil pump, if those are leaking, it seems like they would just send oil back into the oil pan. And if it were the perimeter of the oil pan (where liquid gasket would have been applied), I think it would be leaving a puddle or going back into the oil pan.

But if it's the gasket between the pulley case and oil pump, then the oil would show up inside the lower timing cover area (and possibly whipped around the entire timing cover area by the belts).

 

[enne]

My '99 I4 is leaking badly around where the distributor mounts to the engine. Did you check that area? I believe the crank seal is a common place for these ones to leak, also.

 

[CDsDontBurn]

I've heard that the front engine seal is an item that needs to be replaced when doing the timing belt job on the i4 engines. Not entirely sure since I have a v6 myself....

Also, if it's leaking back into the pan, is it really a leak? After all, oil does go back into the pan anyway. If you're not leaking oil out of the engine and you're losing oil, you are burning oil. Do a compression check of your engine and hopefully you'll find that the rings are fine.

 

[mossberg]

My '99 I4 is leaking badly around where the distributor mounts to the engine. Did you check that area? I believe the crank seal is a common place for these ones to leak, also.

Yes, I took care of this a while back. If yours is leaking, you'll want to change the distributor O-ring. Also, take the distributor cap off, and if there's oil inside the distributor, the shaft seal is leaking and you'll want to replace that as well. To do so, you'll need to press out a very tight fitting pin. I've seen videos of guys struggling to remove this pin, but the much easier method is to use a motorcycle chain breaker (can get one from Harbor Freight).

 

[mossberg]

I've heard that the front engine seal is an item that needs to be replaced when doing the timing belt job on the i4 engines. Not entirely sure since I have a v6 myself....

Also, if it's leaking back into the pan, is it really a leak? After all, oil does go back into the pan anyway. If you're not leaking oil out of the engine and you're losing oil, you are burning oil. Do a compression check of your engine and hopefully you'll find that the rings are fine.

I just bought a compression tester to do just that. I'm guessing compression will be fine. Engine runs good, gets good gas mileage and there isn't the kind of smoke I'd expect if most of the 1qt/1k miles I'm losing is coming out of the exhaust.

But for sure, I'm going to check compression before I bother with timing belt, water pump and the seals on the front of the engine.

 

[greg1c]

When the timing belt is replaced on these engines you also need to replace the balancer shaft seal as well. The is a new part that has a holder that holds the seal from pooping out. There also is a seal between the oil pump and the balancer as well. They tend to get flattened out and brittle.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[mossberg]

When the timing belt is replaced on these engines you also need to replace the balancer shaft seal as well. The is a new part that has a holder that holds the seal from pooping out. There also is a seal between the oil pump and the balancer as well. They tend to get flattened out and brittle.

I'm familiar with the balancer shaft seal and the retainer for that seal.

I'm not familiar with the other seal you're referring to. Is it the gasket that I mention in the earlier post containing the video?

 

[greg1c]

Yes the seal in the video is the one to replace, as well as the balancer shaft seal and add the retainer. This is the seal, same as the video.


Koauto Front Oil Pump Gasket and Auxiliary Shaft Seal For Honda Accord Acura CL 91233-PT0-003 15114-PT0-003

Timing belt kit

TBK Timing Belt Kit Honda Accord 1998 to 2002 Dx Lx Ex VP 4cyl Aisin Water Pump Koyo Bearings, Bando Drive Belts Springs and Seals

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[mossberg]

Yes the seal in the video is the one to replace, as well as the balancer shaft seal and add the retainer. This is the seal, same as the video.


Koauto Front Oil Pump Gasket and Auxiliary Shaft Seal For Honda Accord Acura CL 91233-PT0-003 15114-PT0-003 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DYJ3XT4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_dn.tBbPV2K6TK


Timing belt kit

TBK Timing Belt Kit Honda Accord 1998 to 2002 Dx Lx Ex VP 4cyl Aisin Water Pump Koyo Bearings, Bando Drive Belts Springs and Seals https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0034CM30Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_bk.tBbT3FPP8R

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I plan on replacing the balance shaft seal and get the retainer (I don't see one by the front edge of the timing cover so I guess Honda wasn't installing these at the factory even for 2001 model year cars). Strange that that vendor is selling the balance shaft seal together with that gasket. Those two are for two different shafts - the front balance shaft and the rear balance shaft/oil pump drive.

I'll also be replacing that gasket since it's easy to get to. I'm just hoping the leak isn't from any of the oil pump's internal seals because accessing those involves a lot more work.

I was looking at that timing belt kit, but I don't think those are OEM seals. Going OEM for everything involved in this job is very expensive compared to that kit (more than twice the price). I think I'll get this kit:

And then place an order with an online Honda parts dealer for all the seals - balance shaft (and retainer), crank, cam, that front-of-oil-pump gasket, dipstick o-ring, valve cover gasket, spark plug tube seals. It's slightly more expensive than the TBK kit, but I'll feel better knowing all the seals are OEM.