[Coach Steve]

I'm completely baffled by this.
Some might remember the debacle I endured two years ago after replacing both pre-cats and then not being able to successfully perform a drive cycle that would satisfy the system thereby setting the various systems to a ready state. That one definitely added some gray hairs to the beard! It took a ridiculous amount of time to finally get the systems ready and then pass emissions.

Fast forward to last Friday afternoon.

Tags expire at the end of June but no worries as my vehicle's emissions system is pretty much brand new and has given me absolutely no reason to think it won't pass emissions. I saunter in to the testing station and for the first time in my life, drove without having to wait, directly into the testing bay! Freaking Awesome!
Guy hooks the car up and almost immediately unhooks it and tells me he can't perform the test due to "systems not ready", blah, blah, blah...
Having become expertly aware of the ridiculously finicky tolerances this car employs in order to successfully complete a drive cycle, I laugh it off and tell the guy, in my best Schwarzenegger voice, "I'll be bock!" and drive off.

At that point, I realize I need to pay attention to the situation at hand because...
A. I've only got a few days till the tags expire and
B. If you fail twice consecutively, you are locked out of the system statewide until the reasons for the failure have been rectified and verified by a state certified tech who then has to contact the state's emissions HQ and tell them to lift the lockout.

Fine, I'll humbly bow down to the diva that is my car and do a drive cycle by the numbers, which I did yesterday.

Pulled in to the testing facility and just like the first time, there was no one ahead of me. Drove straight in and experienced the exact same events as the last time I was there. Guy hands me the print out, which I failed to actually read the last time, which not only shows some systems not ready,
it shows that NONE of them are ready!!!




I have no CEL and there are no stored codes. Car is running perfectly. No symptoms of any kind. Car starts on the first try and runs until I turn it off. Gas mileage is normal with no noticeable changes recently. No repairs have been done in the last 6 mos or so.

The only existing problems the car has are the need for a new MICU. All problems related to it are keyless entry specific and it needs a new cable reel to fix the airbag light on, cruise working intermittently, and radio controls on steering wheel not working.
Aside from that, there is nothing mechanically wrong with the car.

Could this be a failed ECU, PCM, WTF?! <---see what I did there? :devil

So now, I've got less than 48 hours till my tags expire and absolutely no idea why my entire emissions system is, for all intents and purposes, not functioning.

Somebody...? Anybody...? Hell, I'll even read suggestions from @jimijam and will have somebody read me any replies from @Drew03Accord... that's how desperate I am! :bawling:

Thanks everybody!

 

[Soler25]

What does your malfunction indicator light do if you turn the key to ON, without starting the engine? If it stays on for about 20 seconds & turns off, you should be good. If it blinks 5 times (if i remember correctly) you have issues still.

Has the battery been died/drained recently? I would check the voltage, if it is too low the drive cycle might not store correctly causing it to reset every time you turn the car off.

 

[greg1c]

Your state has a waiver program, what you need to do is have the car diagnosed and do a low emissions tune-up. After that if the repairs exceed $450 in Phoenix or $300 in Tucson you can take all the information to a waiver facility. Any repairs made within 60 days counts.

 

[Aviography]

The sub systems become ready after many drive cycles if the battery power had been lost.

Weak batteries could cause this too, but I don't think that's the case if you can start the car easily, but might as well get the battery load tested to rule it out.

Go to a local Pepboys, AutoZone etc., get them to plug in their OBD-II tester and see if the sub systems also show Not Ready, then at least you know the Test Center system was function correctly, it the store OBD-II reader give the car a clean health, then it's time to find another test center.

 

[Coach Steve]

Thanks guys for the prompt replies.
Wife has had the car all day so I haven't been able to test anything yet but, I'm also leaning toward the battery as the culprit. It's almost 3 yrs. old and it's a cheap one too. Going to have it tested this afternoon.
Now, another possible mini in the gears that I neglected to remember when I wrote my OP. I replaced th3 alternator a couple of months ago. Its possible it's not producing the correct voltage. Hmmm...
@greg1c that's good info. Thanks. I seriously hope it doesn't come to,that because,it means I will have to spend $450 to obtain the waiver.

 

[carguy1234]

Failing inspection is never fun. I'd definitely get the battery checked out first. Good luck!

 

[greg1c]

One possibility is the battery is weak and while starting the car the voltage drops and the readiness test information is erased. Take a look at the voltage while you are starting the car. As always check the basics, cables clean and tight and no corrosion on the posts and cables. One way to check this theory is to drive a while and see if any of the readiness test complete after a long drive. If they do complete it would seem to be a battery issue.

 

[Coach Steve]

One possibility is the battery is weak and while starting the car the voltage drops and the readiness test information is erased. Take a look at the voltage while you are starting the car. As always check the basics, cables clean and tight and no corrosion on the posts and cables. One way to check this theory is to drive a while and see if any of the readiness test complete after a long drive. If they do complete it would seem to be a battery issue.

DING DING DING!! Winner, winner, Chicken Dinner!


After my last reply this afternoon, I proceeded to research the emissions system and its intricacies, complexities, etc. and more to the point, learn what exactly takes place in order for the ECU to set an area of the system to a ready state. I wanted to know the processes that take place and in what order, so that I could get a grasp on how many parts could potentially be to blame for the situation I was experiencing. I mean, c'mon... NONE of the systems being ready?! There had to be something in place preventing the system from accomplishing it but until I put myself through the super-accelerated doctorate program in Advanced Emissions System Operations, I had no clue what to even look for.

I'll spare you the enormously complex computer operations that take place at the speed of light in rapid succession in order for the ECU to carry out the multitude of tasks it performs and nutshell it into an easy to digest, bite sized chunk of "explain-it-to-me-like-I'm-a 4-year-old" logic.

It all comes down to the voltage necessary for the ECU to trigger the tests of the various sub-systems of the emissions. In our case, the magic number is 13.1V.
13.1 volts of clean, stable, non-fluxuating power is required for the tests to take place. Prior to the ECU launching the tests, it tests the current to ensure the required voltage is present. If it is not, the test is cancelled. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Everything coming off the battery on my car was corroded. The terminals, clamps, cables, all of it. It's a small wonder the starter was able to actually work at all when the key was turned. I took the car over to Auto Zone to have the battery tested and to have the OBD-ll system scanned hoping there would be something there that might lead me toward the solution.
The guy tested the battery first. The battery passed but the machine also indicated the battery needed to be fully charged. This was my first suspicion there was a problem with something related to the charging system. The new alternator was throwing out lots of power when tested at the terminals on its rear - 14.x volts. No problem there.
Next he hooked the scanner up. My CEL wasn't on, nor had it been on since before my alternator failed, so I wasn't expecting there to be any codes or stored codes. What I didn't expect was for the scanner to return a message that it was unable to retrieve any data due to an error. HUH?!
The wheels started spinning pretty quickly in my head at that point and all roads led to bad contacts and/or cables.
Remember the 14.x volts coming off the alternator? By the time it was reaching the battery terminal, it was adulterated down to 12.1.

I pulled the battery and hooked it up to my charger after sanding and cleaning the terminals. I then proceeded to remove the terminal connectors from the cables and stripped the insulation back a couple of inches. The entire time I was playing with the positive cable, it was releasing white powder (corrosion). I stripped the insulation a little more and the corrosion was just as thick . At that point I decided to replace the cables on the positive side because the odds were pretty good the corrosion existed the entire length of the cables.
bought a new set of zinc terminal connectors and will install the ne cables tomorrow.

You just can't under estimate the importance of having clean, solid, connections and cables. This was a perfect example of an entire system not functioning due to bad contacts, a compromised current path and dirty connectors.

This was a great lesson for me and I'm hopeful for others as well in the future. The best part of the entire thing though, without a doubt is that I'm only out $25.00 and I'll be able to pass emissions and register my car without any late fees.

Thanks to everyone for your replies and suggestions. I've learned to not be instantly freaked out or get too worried right off the bat when something happens to my car until after coming here and presenting the problem. In almost every single case when something has occurred out of nowhere, the answers were provided within hours (sometimes minutes) from the collective knowledge-base that exists herein and in the great heads of my fellow members.

Thank you!

Coach

 

[Drew03Accord]

ISomebody...? Anybody...? Hell, I'll even read suggestions from @jimijam and will have somebody read me any replies from @Drew03Accord... that's how desperate I am! :bawling:

You just can't under estimate the importance of having clean, solid, connections and cables. This was a perfect example of an entire system not functioning due to bad contacts, a compromised current path and dirty connectors.

+

 

[BLCKFLSH]

These cars can do some strange stuff without sufficient voltage. My car was doing some strange things too, even when the starter worked fine. At one point I would start the car and the park light in the dash would not be lit, and when that happened the A/C compressor would not engage (just hot air). Checking the codes from the MICU showed communication errors, and the first thing the service manual said to check was battery voltage. New battery solved the issues. Glad you got it solved Coach.:smile

 

[Coach Steve]

These cars can do some strange stuff without sufficient voltage.

That should have been the tag line for these cars! :laugh

I've been a DIY-er and have participated in forums specific to the cars I've owned for nearly 20 years and I can confidently say these cars are the most sensitive with respect to voltage - more specifically lack of voltage.

In the past 2.25 years since becoming a member here, I've read posts presenting problems that you would never, in a million years, suspect low voltage as being the culprit, yet after all of the normal, intuitive things were ruled out, the solution ended up being a bad battery, corroded cables, weak/loose connections or some combination therein. :scratch: :screwy:

Yeah, I've witnessed more "WTF" moments here than anywhere else.

After getting everything buttoned back up this morning, I put the multi-meter to work to see the various differences here and there. The alternator was generating 14.4V locally and 14.3V at the battery. After charging the battery overnight, it went from 12.1V to 14.1V unloaded.

The thing that I believe makes us not want to immediately believe that the battery et al is the culprit, is the fact that in almost every case, the problems don't present with the norm,al kinds of things you regularly see with battery/voltage issues, i.e., dimming lights, weak accessories, slow fans, etc. These things usually still perform the way (or close to it) they normally would.

Glad you got it solved, Coach.

You and me both, buddy! Thanks!

One of the members who is proficient with the nuances, anomalies and behavior of this gen Accord should author a post specific to the sensitivity and wide range of problems that can occur as a result of low or insufficient voltage, for the sole purpose of creating a sticky.
There are sufficient posts where the solution was directly or indirectly found to be voltage/battery related.
I believe it would be of great value to the countless people who come here searching for answers to a problem they would not suspect to be related to this situation. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[BLCKFLSH]

Many times, the service manual tells you to check the battery first. Did you buy a new positive battery cable? They are special to this car, so you usually have to pay a good price for it.
I might need a new positive cable in the near future because even my relatively new battery doesn't spin the motor over as quickly as it did when new. It seems every time I change the battery it spins very quickly at first, but it doesn't last long. This car seems to be hard on batteries. 3 or 4 years seems to be the average for me. Just long enough to make the prorated warranty worthless.

 

[Coach Steve]

Many times, the service manual tells you to check the battery first. Did you buy a new positive battery cable? They are special to this car, so you usually have to pay a good price for it.
I might need a new positive cable in the near future because even my relatively new battery doesn't spin the motor over as quickly as it did when new. It seems every time I change the battery it spins very quickly at first, but it doesn't last long. This car seems to be hard on batteries. 3 or 4 years seems to be the average for me. Just long enough to make the prorated warranty worthless.

Yeah, I stepped up and bought OEM from the dealer right down the street from me. You're right, they're pricey. Retail was $56.00 for the cable but I know the parts guy pretty well from buying lots of little things for customers' cars as I've needed them as well as the stuff for my own vehicle. He let me have it for 10% over cost which ended up being $38.00 + tax. so not too bad overall.
Another factor in deciding to buy OEM is that none of the parts houses locally had a direct replacement aftermarket part and I didn't want to wait for one to be delivered and the dealer had one so my hand was pretty much forced. :laugh

 

[BLCKFLSH]

I've seen prices close to $100, so that's a great price. I doubt very much I could get the cable for close to that at my local dealership. They might not make a lot on new cars, but they make a killing on service. I rarely need a part right away, so I buy most of my parts online.

 

[Aviography]

Just keep in mind you will need several drive cycles to get all subsystems "Ready", depends on how and how far you drive, this could take several days and many trips.

Best way to not get a surprise at the test center is to get the OBD-II reader yourself which has the subsystem ready indicators like the one I have, or get the parts store guys to read and confirm for you all subsystems are ready BEFORE you go to the test center.

 

[carguy1234]

These cars can do some strange stuff without sufficient voltage. My car was doing some strange things too, even when the starter worked fine. At one point I would start the car and the park light in the dash would not be lit, and when that happened the A/C compressor would not engage (just hot air). Checking the codes from the MICU showed communication errors, and the first thing the service manual said to check was battery voltage. New battery solved the issues. Glad you got it solved Coach.:smile

Definitely agree with this. Back when my alternator failed, there were some "WTF" moments when the car couldn't keep all of the interior electronics on and in sync at the same time!!

 

[Drew03Accord]

Good job, Coach. Now how the freak did a guy who details cars let his battery cable rot to hell? I outa come out there and strangle you with it. LOL ...Just giving you a hard time, man.

Believe me on the dielectric grease though. You could have avoided all that if you had used some. Get the toothbrush and work it into the lead and post. Been using it for years and I get zero green fuzz or anything. I also apply it every time I pull a plug on the car, spark plugs and coil pack boots. Makes it easier to pull for next time, keeps the connection clean and repels moisture.

 

[Coach Steve]

I've seen prices close to $100, so that's a great price. I doubt very much I could get the cable for close to that at my local dealership. They might not make a lot on new cars, but they make a killing on service. I rarely need a part right away, so I buy most of my parts online.

Believe me, I buy the majority of everything I buy online when it's feasible to do so. $100 for THAT cable?! Yikes! I had no idea how good the deal I got actually was.
The parts manager, Bret, is a good guy and luckily, the dealership allows him some flexibility when it comes to the prices on Honda parts. It doesn't always work that way though. The age of our cars plays heavily on the odds of them having the part I need in stock. Unless the part I need is super common and was used across multiple generations, he will have to order it. He still throws me a decent discount but not like the cable deal.

A fair number of vehicles I service have missing or broken small random parts (knobs, buttons, seat-back levers, etc.) that aren't expensive. I will almost always replace those parts for the customer at no charge so I've developed a good relationship with the parts guys at the 5 dealerships of the biggest sellers which are all within 5 miles of me. I figure the $20.00 I spend to replace those parts are reciprocated many times over via the referrals and repeat business I see. Sometimes the customer notices the new part as soon as I deliver the car back to them. Sometimes it's not for a couple of days but when they do, that's when I get the call thanking me and always, always hearing the story of how the part was damaged, lost, etc. and how long ago that was. :laugh
The most surprising thing about getting parts from the local Honda dealer is how incredibly fast he can have the part here from L.A.
If he's out of stock on something and it's in stock at the warehouse in L.A., as long as it's ordered by 4pm, he has it by the time they open the following morning! Amazing!

Good job, Coach. Now how the freak did a guy who details cars let his battery cable rot to hell? I outa come out there and strangle you with it. LOL ...Just giving you a hard time, man.

Well... I... uh.... umm....

Believe me on the dielectric grease though. You could have avoided all that if you had used some. Get the toothbrush and work it into the lead and post. Been using it for years and I get zero green fuzz or anything. I also apply it every time I pull a plug on the car, spark plugs and coil pack boots. Makes it easier to pull for next time, keeps the connection clean and repels moisture.

Ya know, I've heard guys say that before and they swear by it. I guess I've just never taken the time to use the stuff to see how well it works so it hasn't sunken in about its benefits.
I'll pick some up today and apply it. I will then send you pics of the receipts and the products as proof. :wink

BTW, I'm still waiting on those peaches you offered to send me a few months ago. The produce in PHX is f***ing horrible! I haven't eaten a good piece of fruit in the 27 years I've lived here. I think I might have mentioned that to you. :devil:laugh

 

[enne]

I just grab one of those little battery post protection kits at the checkout when I go to the parts store:

Lube up the posts, put the little felt pads on and you're good to go. Haven't had any corrosion issues since I installed the battery in my Accord last July.

 

[Coach Steve]

Lube up the posts, put the little felt pads on and you're good to go.

Part of a conversation between two employees overheard in the locker room at any strip club! :devil:laugh:laugh

Whaaaaaat?! C'mon, that was funny!!!!
{{Coach realizes enne isn't laughing as the grin slowly slides off his face...}}